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DITW 12-5: Requital

🕑 Added 2023-11-15 00:00:03 +0000 UTC

Comments

Kat

@Glaucon, I don’t know what KT’s experiences have been, but being a former Torontonian myself I think I can speak to some of it. It’s a nice city, but like all big cities Toronto has changed a lot, especially in the past 30 years. No one can afford to live there, unless you have a lot of money, or you’re willing to mortgage yourself into the ground. There’s also a “we’re the centre of the universe” attitude that comes with living in the largest city in Canada, one that I never get from people that live in Vancouver or Montreal. I grew up in the suburbs of Toronto, so I’ve experienced both sides. It’s a competitive place, too. Maybe it’s a sort of snobbery, thinking that everything there is better, and you’re not as interesting if you live elsewhere. They’re always shocked to find out that we actually have great restaurants, good shopping, and competent doctors out here in the suburbs. Lol Like we’re all unsophisticated or something. It’s hard to describe. It’s just a feeling. Once I moved back to the suburbs after living and working in Toronto for 15 years, I knew that I never wanted to move back there.

Kat

KT, this is some great insight on how you craft your masterpieces!

Kat

Amazing! I knew there was going to be more at play here.

CSH

Wow, thanks for the reply. That certainly explains it. I can see the whole Hyun thing sinking all of Kimmy’s plans.

Glaucon

Also now I'm really curious about what is SPECIFICALLY derisive of Torontonians. I have my guesses but these things are always colored by personal experience.

Glaucon

That's really interesting KT. I appreciate these notes on how you figured out your writer's voice, as it's something I struggle with a lot. Maybe I'll luck into some sudden inspiration one day.

Kat

On another side note, we also used to hang out in Yorkville on weekends, because my mom would get her hair done there. In the Winter, Hazelton Lanes used to have an outdoor skating rink, and my dad would take us skating to kill the boredom while my mom got her hair done. Hazelton Lanes was always boring for us, except for the stationary store where we bought stickers to add to our collections. It was all a kid could afford there. Sandwiches at the now closed Coffee Mill were staples for us, too.

Kat

I spent a lot of time on the weekends at Bayview Village in the 80’s with my parents. We lived in the suburbs (east…near Kimmy and Josh haha), so we would come into the city on Saturdays to shop and see family, etc. Our dentist office was also in the Bayview Village offices. I remember always getting a cheese dog for lunch from Tummy Ticklers, and shoes from Capezio. I went to the movies there, too! When I worked there in the 90’s Kmart was still open. Lol Bayview was always an upscale plaza, but it really went up after the Kmart closed and Restoration Hardware moved in. I haven’t been there in years.

Bill F Protagoras

I think I chose the Madame because of the Bourgeois (French) Connection between the two books... I suspect you're right about the Free Indirect Discourse... even if it wasn't the first it certainly sticks in my mind... Aaaaah, Elmore Leonard, like Faulkner once I started I couldn't let him go... He is a prime example of why genre snobbery is so clearly arrant nonsense... You chose a good guiding light... I can look up now and see most of his books sitting next to my Flashman collection... a few I lost to a philistine watering potted plants carelessly... but kindle has its virtues... I can see his influence... but your penchant for exotic vocabulary reminds me of John Gardner and Anthony Burgess... I'm loving where you're taking us...

KT Morrison

Back when I started this writing thing in January 2016, I plopped a very old copy of Madame Bovary on my desk for reference. Flaubert was the first, I believe, to use Third Person Free Indirect Discourse. Flaubert was great, but I settled on Elmore Leonard as the guiding star for finding my own writer's voice. One needs a rule system to know when they're coloring out of the lines! But here’s another thing about Flaubert and Madame Bovary and Devil In The Waters: there is very much a component of analytical derision on my part for the modern Torontonian bourgeoisie. As a newfound Provinciale myself, I like to look back and reflect on how it poisoned even me.

KT Morrison

Ha ha, so many literary gems here

KT Morrison

Ooo, that's a nice observation.

KT Morrison

Yes, I think Kimmy is Devlinning Hyun, too.

KT Morrison

And here's another complication: Kimmy started something with Hyun, and she might think it's going to go away, but it's not going to go away and now she has to make the best of it.

KT Morrison

I waited a day to reply to this post because I didn't want to give anything away. SPOILER ALERT CSH's response is exactly what I hoped for. Frustration and irritation as a tool to misdirection. I wanted the scene with Kimmy in the hotel to come abruptly. There's a lot going on in those first five chapters and I had to phrase them so they were doing two things at once. Granted, I thought I could do it in four not five, but I think it heightened the effect!

KT Morrison

@Kat It's been decades(!) since I've been to Bayview Village (longer ago than the 90s, ha ha) but I have fond memories of going to the movies there. You used to have to take an escalator down to the theater level, and the place was decorated like a mishmash of Art Deco and Victorian times. Wonderful. This would be the 70s, ha ha. I can still smell the popcorn and picture the concession the way it was. It was an upscale mall back then, but I'm sure it's been renoed to nameless modernity and plugged with luxury brands by now.

Kat

Kimmy is the Devlin here 100%. Dressing Hyun in expensive clothes, taking her out for an expensive meal, wanting to “show her off”, giving her the sexual interest that she’s dreamed of, etc. Hyun has way more to lose here when all of this goes sideways. She’s definitely gambling with her daughter’s life.

Kat

L_S87 I think you got it right. Kimmy takes Josh for granted, because she feels that she can. They’ve been together so long, and she can’t see a life without him in it. She’s said they are a perfect fit for each other. I think if Josh really were to leave her, she wouldn’t know what to do with herself. However, this doesn’t excuse her behaviour with Hyun. Is she going to confess this stuff to Josh, as well? Lol I highly doubt it. Glaucon, you are right the two relationships are nowhere the same, but it’s infuriating seeing how comfortable Kimmy is with Hyun. I get that she likes it because she is the dominant one, showing Hyun new things, buying her expensive clothes, etc., but her husband is at Meyer’s literally torturing himself with what she might have done, and what his next move is. I’d love to see Kimmy do some penance for a change. She never seems to mope for too long.

Glaucon

Agreed. Side note to this, despite being a major component of the story since page one, we actually know very little about Devlin and what he really wants out of everything. He says stuff about what he wants all the time, sure, but his actions rarely line up with what he claims. Side note to the side note, and a response to the above I think looking back people might actually be surprised how few scenes Devlin has actually been present in (Especially if he's not the texter).

Glaucon

I don't think we should compare Hyun and Josh's relationships with Kimmy one-for-one, Josh and Kimmy are a multi-year long relationship, Hyun and Kimmy are barely a thing, just a transitory fantasy for Kimmy. It's easy for Kimmy to treat Hyun "sweetly" right now when that doesn't really cost her anything, they don't even have a real relationship with compromise, it's just a fling. I don't think the love and affection are comparable, even in the last Hyun and Kimmy scene from the previous book Kimmy recognizes she's basically taking advantage of Hyun's real feeling that Kimmy doesn't really reciprocate. This is not romantically meaningful to Kimmy (imo).

L_S87

That's basically it. She treats Hyun better than Josh while being so adamant on how much she needs and loves him. I'm not sure if the reason she treats Josh so awfully is because she takes him for granted, or if her twisted version of love is so strong for him that she feels free to let everything out, all her deepest, darkest, despicable desires. Something she doesn't do with Hyun because the love and affection is different, the bond not so strong. Or maybe she's such a good little demoness that she reads that Hyun needs a firm, but gentle hand for the corruption to "take" so she's treating her differently. We have half a series from Kimmy's POV, and yet it's still impossible to figure out what goes through her head most of the time.

L_S87

Huh. That's a VERY astute observation. The way Kimmy treats Hyun is very similar to how she treats Josh, she's just much kinder and less forceful in how she projects her dominance of the situation. Kimmy seems to have zero intentions to replace Josh, though I could see that happening with Hyun becoming her sole focus if Josh leaves for some reason. Hyun is a bit of a security blanket for Kimmy, in many different ways. That assumes, of course, that the impending disaster doesn't destroy Hyun's trust and love in Kimmy. I see your point of distraction. For me it's a needed one. This adds a necessary layer of complexity to a situation that would otherwise be somewhat straightforward on where Josh, Kimmy and Devlin end up.

CSH

Nice point, but not sure I agree, maybe Hyun is another Josh, with Kimmy learning to be a kinder Dom? In any case, it’s a bit late in the game for all this and I fear time spent on Hyun detracts from moving the main three characters forward.

CSH

Devlin does have a homoerotic kink for Josh and Josh for him. They may not do anything about it but it’s definitely there.

Bill F Protagoras

Also we can love more than one person at the same time, and love doesn't have to diminish the person who gives it or the one who receives it.

Bill F Protagoras

People are making some good points... yet it seems that romantic love, erotic satisfaction and family love are all being bunched up together higgledy-piggledy... everyone is becoming a bit procrustean, riding their hobby horses and poking their hobgoblins... which is all good fun, but isn't it at times a bit puritanical and hypocritical... and a lot of the vitriol is being poured on Kimmy, and Josh is casually despised and underestimated. Whose motivations could withstand hostile scrutiny... I don't exclude myself from these criticisms... but I see K and J as the protagonists of the book... to the child in me they are the heroes flawed, but worthy of compassion... but Devlin is a big fat tick that represents most of the most pernicious things in the world... his only redeeming features being that the size of penis gives temporary respite to some peoples' erotic needs... and gets US all riled up in the best and worst way... I just don't want to ever say (though its "only" fiction)... yer know, that Emma Bovary and that Kimmy Chang both deserved what they got... If only out of my respect for Flaubert and Morrison...

Bill F Protagoras

Don't worry Mike the more wheels the greater the redundancy...or the more "Devlin's" preference for the Hareem... Although I don't see how Josh as a victim fits into your original 4... unless you are suggesting Devlin has some sort of homoerotic kink for him. I don't really see Josh consenting... but maybe that's Devlin's thing... Mmmm and could Kimmy somehow have become a vicarious substitute for her husband... If that's the case he seems to have stepped on his own dick, doesn't he? Nonethess, as you imply, KT will surely provide grist for our mill. See you on the other side... Cheers!

Kat

I agree. Hyun is much more dangerous, because what they’re doing will blow up the family, and mess up Sophie’s life. I almost wish Kimmy had gone back and just fucked Devlin. With him there’s no affection, no real respect. Yes, he’s cruel and part of the attraction for both of them is the torment it causes Josh, but I think this thing with Hyun is so much worse. With Hyun, there’s actual affection. They genuinely care for each other. I think it might do Josh in, too. Knowing that while he was away trying to work through their issues, Kimmy was spending her time with Hyun, putting his care and needs last, yet again. It kind of made my stomach turn during the chat at the sex shop when Kimmy told Hyun she’d throw out the Devlin dildo just like that, because Hyun didn’t like it. It seems so easy for Kimmy to be kind and giving to Hyun, but to her own husband she’s an awful demon. Yes, she’s enjoying her corruption of Hyun, but she doing it sweetly with kindness, like with real feeling and love. I don’t get that for Josh. Even in the beginning of the chapter where she states that she’s going to have to confess to Josh sooner than later. And then in the next part she’s basically cheating on him, taking Hyun out on a date, getting ready to seduce her again. It’s really frustrating. I want all of Kimmy’s dirt to finally come out. Maybe Quinn’s cousin the PI will spy on Kimmy, and get pictures, etc. of her and Hyun together. That would be bad.

Bill F Protagoras

attention is hardly going to make George Smiley eagerly recruit Kimmy and Hyun as crack operatives for his merry mole hunt... Even the acerbic Jackson Lamb would probably only fart in their general direction... and his "team" are despised and derided for their incompetence. Maybe James Bond but he would insist that they change their names to something supposedly raunchy but just demeaning... or should I say laughable... PS (should have been "more admirable than others.")

Glaucon

Definitely

Bill F Protagoras

Requital... is like reciprocity, giving what you owe as sociological lubricant but legally it can mean to pay back, or get payback... In common parlance I think it is best known in the phrase "unrequited love." A brokerage firm has a fiduciary duty to its clients, so Devlin should at least have a cursory knowledge of how to act in good faith. Cyrano was a good natured man (and expert killer) whose huge nose proved a bane to his obtaining requital. There are obvious examples of requital in this episode some admirable than others. In general, this episode seems on the surface to show a minimal amount of human vanity and laudable examples of affection. Although hearing your daughter mention, no doubt enthusiastically, that her uncle Josh is around spoiling her with

Andrew Mellein

Whatever happened to Kimmy's line "We are in trouble Josh" then it cut out to Hyun? Then we still have not seen the information Devlin revealed to Josh? And what about Kimmy going to up to Devlin's apartment? I hate to say this but I want to see Devlin back to make some twisted drama in this story. But Ill still read and see where the story goes!

L_S87

Good point. I meant Devlin 2.0 in regards to Josh and their marriage and Kimmy finding a new "toy" to play with that has the same capacity to destroy everything. Not so much that Hyun is anything like Devlin or has any desire to hurt Josh or corrupt anyone. Kimmy stepped away from Devlin as if that was some great accomplishment, yet she just filled that void with someone equally dangerous, if emotionally quite different.

Mike Monroe

I am not a fan of the Kimmy ..Hyun thing...not feeling it at all ..Hyun is a fourth wheel not needed ..if any fourth wheel there should be it should be Amy raising her evil head..period ...The 4 original s Devlin ..Josh ..Kimmy and Amy...this a destructive path...with a child also in play . Not feeling this .. Josh's family is placed in a direct path of a Tornado...sorry not liking this part so far. I sure KT has more in store ..so will have to see.

Glaucon

Interesting parallel (to me): Meyer is reluctant to even help Josh hire a third party if he thinks it's to spy on his wife, while Hyun is happy to use her daughter to spy for Kimmy. A big part of this is down to Kimmy's superior skill at manipulation, but I still think it's a noteworthy touchstone showing Josh's relative "power" in the narrative.

Glaucon

I think Kimmy is the Devlin 2.0 in the pairing if anyone is. She's the overt corrupting influence that really mostly cares about the sexual dimension of the relationship and is a "bad idea" for Hyun more than the other way around (Hyun is gambling with her daughter's family connections in a way that could poison that relationship). And the way that Kimmy thinks about their sex in the previous encounter, thinking about how Devlin would do things, etc. Kimmy's devilification has been a major theme of the story IMO.

L_S87

I see your point, I thought on it myself a while back. While I find the Hyun and Kimmy relationship much more compelling than you do, I felt the same about how "sudden" this felt. I came to the conclusion that it happened this way because it had to. Not because KT shoe horned it in, but because Kimmy had zero reason to be involved with Hyun on a sexual level while Devlin was satisfying her extramarital needs. Once Devlin became a non option in her mind, she needed a replacement. I don't think she expected it to be Hyun, but that's the unique place she found herself when her leverage plan went a bit sideways in the emotional department. And so here we are. Hyun is A softer, sweeter Devlin. A Devlin that Kimmy actually cares about. But still a Devlin when it comes to sex and scratching that taboo itch Kimmy's got.

L_S87

I feel like in many ways, Hyun is much more dangerous than Devlin. Not because she's evil for what she's allowed to transpire, but because she's so sweet and innocent while letting Kimmy guide this unique development in their "friendship". She's captured Kimmy's heart in a way Devlin never did. I'm not saying Kimmy wants to leave Josh, but more that if things go sideways, I could easily see her using Hyun as a plan B to fill an emotional void left by Josh's absence. Thus making her much less inclined to seek repentance from Josh for her actions, or put effort into reconciliation should Josh leave if (more like when) Devlin blows apart this house of cards called a "marriage". Josh is still #1, as evidenced by Kimmy's manipulation of Hyun here to find out where he's at, but Hyun's easy attitude and support is clearly cathartic and a draw for Kimmy. I wonder what is going through Hyun's head while Kimmy is demanding of her to use Sophie to find out if Josh is with Meyer, clearly setting the importance of that above their date... yet once the mission is accomplished, showering her with affection almost as if it's payment for a job well done. It would be so intriguing to peak into her psyche.

L_S87

Well. I'm glad Hyun got wrapped back into this, mostly because it's become clear that Hyun is Devlin 2.0. Kimmy is totally distraught about Josh, apologetic, conciliatory right up until she realizes she doesn't have to be afraid because she now knows where Josh is at. And once she's free of that fear it leaves an emotional void. What does Kimmy fill it with? Dirty, sordid sexuality with Hyun, of course. She's free from her worry, Josh isn't going to leave her because Devlin is whispering in his ear, false alarm, fine to go back to being "the real" Kimmy. And that's the problem. Kimmy doesn't even see it. She's so proud of herself for swearing off Devlin, for hating him for what he did to Josh. Shes completely oblivious to the the fact that she's doing the same damn thing with Hyun. Oh, sure, Hyun would never torment Josh, but he certainly would never see this behavior in the sex shop as "okay" much less the celebratory "thank you" sex that Kimmy is going to shower on Hyun for being her good little spy. I can't believe Kimmy had the gall to call Josh his own worst enemy. Pot, meet kettle.

KT Morrison

This is great.

CSH

I’m still enjoying the story but honestly not as much as before, the whole Hyun story line is a bit off putting for me in a way I can’t explain. It still feels a bit artificial as if we have gone off on a tangent story line. I find myself skimming these scenes as they are somehow non-erotic for me. I get the sense Hyun is destined to play some pivotal part in all this and so we must witness the relationship being built. But I think this should have been presented much earlier in the series to allow it to develop more fully than can be the case this late in the story. I feel like she is there now to make possible her blowing the whole situation up rather than being intrinsic to the story. Meanwhile, there hasn’t been anything erotic between Kimmy and Devlin or Kimmy and Josh in a while so the main plot points don’t seem to be moving. Devlin has disappeared from the story as a direct presence though his indirect presence is always felt. What happened to her going up to his apartment? Does she no longer see the guy at work? Obviously, hints are being dropped that something is up but we aren’t getting anything while we wait for Kimmy to get tired of taking advantage of her naive friend. Given this is the last book, at this point I’m not sure where we are going, or how we get to a satisfactory (even if not satisfying) conclusion. This book started great but how did we end up so soon in another of these scenes with Hyun?

Kat

On a side note, I worked part time at Bayview Village in the late 90’s when I was a student in College. Lol

Glaucon

I'm laughing, of course the second Kimmy feels free from actual consequences the guilt evaporates and look at what's first thing on the docket. And all her emotions are free-wheeling glee at the prospect of "corrupting" "innocence."

Kat

I knew it! I knew Kimmy was going to go back for more with Hyun. Then she has to cross the line even more by taking her to the same sex shop she bought Devlin’s replica, this time to buy a strap on, and to show herself fancy self off to the shop girls. Kimmy has absolutely no self control. She really can’t be on her own without some form of physical validation, can she? She whines and mopes about Josh not coming back, acting all miserable, but in a blink of an eye he’s replaced by Hyun wearing a strap on. It seems like Kimmy is the one in control and cold and manipulative, but she seems rather pathetic here to me. I think she’s using Hyun to make herself feel better, and distract herself from the truth in her life. I’m sure she has real affection for Hyun, but right now I think Hyun is being used as pure distraction for Kimmy. This is not going to end well for Kimmy or for Hyun when Meyer finds out.


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