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[Salvos] 722. The Archangel Part Five

🕑 Added 2024-09-16 15:20:03 +0000 UTC

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Matt Cannon

When Salvos stopped Reggie's summoning and we got an interlude with the devil, he mentioned both "greater gods" and "true gods" in that order. I assume Salvos will evolve into a greater god at 200. Not sure on true good yet, though based on what is said in this chapter that appears to be 200+ evolution.

Danijel Turina

There are things that are completely unclear. For instance, souls. We know that humans, for instance, have a soul that doesn't change, but souls of demons and spirits evolve. How does that work? Is it a substance? Is a soul even a localised phenomenon? It obviously isn't encompassed by the mechanism of classes and levels. What happens to the soul when someone dies outside of his native plane, for instance a demon or a spirit in the Mortal Realm, or a human in the Netherworld? What happens if they die between the planes? What happens if a worldwalker dies outside of his native world? What happened to Via's soul? Is it merely a foreign substance that disperses into the world, taking no root, or does it get adopted by the new world? What happens to the souls after death? Do they merely get absorbed into an amorphous pool of soul-stuff from which the new beings sprout? How does one actually grow in power when levelling? Do they absorb the mana of the killed? Apparently not since we know it collects on the battlefields, but some energetic transaction must take place. Will someone finally do something with the Dreaded Goblet? :)

horus scope

I know it was a while ago in real time, and just like you I only occasionally re-read the whole salvos, but don't you remember the Devil's story? How the angel from the multiverses came and got killed by a special weapon? This archangel is a tool of those ones, so he is a bad ally because ultimately our Salvos will kill them (not the spirit lord, who will likely also be an antagonist and has bad reasoning)

Danijel Turina

I’ll write down some of my observations… Salvos is in a weird position, where lots of demons put their faith in her, literally betting their lives on the success of her rebellion. Will she be adult enough to handle this responsibly, meaning that she can’t just deal with Regnorex and leave everything in shambles. Netherworld will need to be reorganised, there will need to be a new kingdom, where someone will proclaim their domain, implement their rules and establish order in a sea of chaos. If she fails to handle this properly, chaos will ensue and everybody will just start killing each other, or be overwhelmed by the Primordial wild Demons. So, she will need to either do something herself, or together with Haec, and there will have to be new roles for all those demons, a hierarchy that gives them purpose, something akin to what Samuel did with the 1st kingdom. Does she understand that, or will she start thinking about it only when it becomes the immediate reality? Will she give the crown back to her father, who was ostensibly the best king Nexeus ever had, will she rule herself, or will she act irresponsibly and not care about it at all, resulting in chaos and death? Also, it increasingly looks as if the battle with Regnorex won’t be *the* final battle; if I’m right, and Trico is behind it all, she will need to evolve in multiple dimensions at once in order to deal with this, and she probably won’t be able to do it alone. Her Divinity looks like it’s approaching an evolution, into the next qualitative level, whatever it’s called – will she become a God without qualifications, a Greater God or True God, I can’t tell, but it increasingly looks like she’ll have to exceed her personal limitations in understanding and definition of both self, the world and the purpose of her existence, all at once, in order to deal with Trico, deal with the corruption of Nexeus (assuming it’s even possible, because there’s always the possibility that it isn’t, and that she’ll have to create a new world, something like Corwin of Amber creating a new Pattern when the old one was damaged). Will she unite the crowns and become the first ruler of all three planes of Nexeus? I mean, if she is to succeed, “Soli” needs to get wrecked, Netherworld will be sede vacante, and the Mortal Realm is devoid of a common ruler anyway, and at that point she might be the only person that would be acceptable to Humans, Elves and Kobolds, and having a common ruler might be preferable to a pointless war where they all kill each other, especially if she’s anointed by the Arcraem. Unfortunately, Hartia might be the only surviving Fairy, and Centina the only surviving Centinel, and Lily’s words might prove to be prophetic in hindsight. It also seems like she’s going to avenge her father, redeem his crown, and destroy his ancient enemy. Also, hopefully, reverse the destruction of the Nexeus, and we still don’t know what Nexeus is, how souls actually work, who exactly is Arcraem, what is the difference between Arcraem, the System, and what is their relationship with the Core of Nexeus. It increasingly looks like the goal of the evolution is to produce a very specific kind of souls that are both of pure love and infinite power, and only those ascend to be True Gods, while abortive attempts get to be the Worldwalkers, who try to cure their desperate emptiness with pointless entertainment, like idiotic rich people on Earth. The Worldwalkers attempt to become True Gods in vain, because they try to increase their power, but power alone is merely one half of what they need; unfortunately for them, everything they do is usually pointless and cruel and only degrades their souls to the point of Trico and the Void Pirates. If anything, I would say there’s a problem with the design of the evolution criteria on the System worlds, where for instance killing an enemy reaps an instant reward, but turning an enemy into a friend seems pointless; no levels, no experience, and yet you apparently need to value exactly that invisible reward as much if not more than the obvious reward of levels. That’s why I think Salvos actually has a chance of becoming a True God, and not only a Worldwalker, but the real question is, will it happen at her Primordial evolution or will her second species evolve separately at a later date, and will it happen quickly enough to defeat Trico, who is extremely skilled and powerful in that one dimension, and yet dwarfed by Salvos in the other, because she can heal souls as expertly as he can break them, and this might make her his cosmic opposite. I would expect Edithe to have some disillusionment ahead of her, regarding the Spirit Lord; Willy seems to be at that point already, regardless of his apparent compulsive submission. They will likely talk to the Archangel, assuming it’s alive, and I kind of expect Salvos to become the point of the conversation, resulting in them shifting planes to Netherworld. Will it happen before Salvos’ encounter with Focalor, I don’t know, but it sort of makes sense if not; they will have lots to talk about, and it would be more elegant if it were one discussion, so that everybody can get to the same page. Archangel, Edithe and Willy don’t know the part about Trico and his original betrayal of the Nexeus in order to cover up the murder of Via, and Salvos doesn’t know about Soli, and who’s helping Regnorex with the ritual (and by helping I mean manipulating the poor fool into it). Focalor probably knows a lot about that part, but probably doesn’t know it’s Trico. Salvos might make the connection instantly, or later, when she sees him. Both sound like interesting possibilities. The team around Salvos is obviously slowly adjusting to the fact that she’s nothing like any demon they ever saw, in that her kindness is equal to her power. I expect Hartia to understand that as he decompresses from the recent fight and understands that she literally put her body between him and danger, where someone else would have sacrificed him as a distraction. I would expect some cathartic moments from him there, because he felt nothing like that since Ivory died, and he might understand what a terrible monster Regnorex and his goons turned him into, and what a terrible life he had there. Manos, too, will keep reverberating from the [Truth Divination], because what that does is remove boundaries between souls, and his deeply broken and traumatised soul came in touch with the pure and perfect soul of Salvos, and that apparently has a catalytic effect on those who accept that direction. However, if I’m reading this correctly, the biggest shock will take place when Edithe, Willy and Centina meet Salvos, in front of all her current company, and they have a very emotional reunion. This will shock the Demons, because they will understand how much Salvos is loved by others, and others they consider enemies. Haec and Edithe might exchange interesting stories about Salvos, as well. This might brighten the entire Nertherworld situation, because they have all been conditioned to expect nothing more than bare survival as the best case scenario, and here they will witness the existence of options they never even dreamed possible; except for Focalor, who had some of that in the 1st kingdom, which is why he never got over his beloved King. All in all, that’s how I imagine the future events. I am very curious about her evolution and the entire Trico/corruption arc, but on a smaller scale, I anticipate the reunions and changes of hearts produced by Salvos, which increasingly looks like passive soul magic of the highest order, which makes me wonder what makes her soul so incredibly powerful, and increasingly powerful as she makes the right choices.

Angworu

But if the hand is to big, the glove will still rip. I am not saying Edithe can weild the full power of a worldwalker, but she should at least be a more suitable vessel than some random lv ~100 max priest

Użytkownik Przeciętny

I love the most when evolutions or some decisions made by characters are based on they literal species or class. For me peak storywriting was when Salvos said she loves only herself which makes perfect sense as a Demon of Pride. One of the best moments was when Salvos become princess of hell, while being interested in princeses as if she was little girl also her choice of changeling when being among people, and so one with ohter characters.

Danijel Turina

It's not Ludex, it's iudex (-icis, m) lat. "judge". And yes, it depends, because it's obviously the case that someone very smart can look like a madman, and also Salvos wields corruption, so using corruption to attain goals isn't in itself a reason not to consider him as an ally.

Travis Brown

Depends maybe Iudex knows some info we don’t

Salvos Enjoyer

Eh, I don't know chief, someone who sets corruption loose is a terrible ally. Although Edithe is stuck in the spirit realm without the guy, it's still better than trying to side with this guy.

Danijel Turina

"But a stronger vessel would probably be better" - not necessarily; no human could possibly bear the full power of what was shown here, so I guess he just needs any being that's native to Nexeus with the basic abilities, and he can then put his hand into that glove. I'd say that's what he learned to do initially, to interface with the Nexeus without compromising his true identity. Some "foolish Spirit" named Soli offered himself, probably in exchange for a share in his power and knowledge or something, and his soul was reduced to being a mere instrument, but any detection by the System would read the glove and not the hand. That's how I'd do it.

Danijel Turina

" didn’t Sal meet Soli and the fairy queen back in book 5 or 6 to propose the bet on Salvos making it out of the bloodied gulf?" - No, he didn't; he met the Fairy Queen and Regnorex. While he did meet Soli before, Trico is an absolute expert on Samuel and I'm sure he knew how to handle himself. I'm sure he'd be very tense about it and very glad when the encounter ended, though. Also, you forgot that Soli met Tera as well, and she knows Trico, which might have contributed to him being very glad to let Fairies go their own way, especially since Tera's plan will kill them all. Also, at that point Samuel was so broken, that even if something reminded him of Trico he would just cringe away from it and think he's going crazy for even thinking it. Also, have in mind that Trico is the absolute expert at fucking with people. He's closest to the absolute evil in this series; someone almost immortal, almost omnipotent, who is motivated by pure boredom - he fucks with people, when they retaliate he murders them, and destroys entire worlds to cover it up. And he has all the time in the world, for instance he could have taken ten thousand years to practice interfacing with the System in all kinds of very specific ways. If he wanted to finish the job on Nexeus in order to hide all evidence of his crime, and possibly power himself up to become a True God, he could be incredibly slow, methodical and precise about it. The only reason why I figured it out so quickly is because something was missing in the story so far, and that ritual Regnorex was about to do felt incredibly suspicious and pointless in every possible way unless you're actually trying to wreck Nexeus without being blamed for it, and I knew someone replaced Hartia as the resident space mage, and when I tried to figure out who that might have been, suddenly Trico became the obvious choice, whispering into Regnorex's ear like he did with Samuel, and Regnorex is too young to know shit. And when the Archangel revealed that he's the official Judge of Arcraem, it all clicked together instantly. Trico's attempts to ruin Nexeus became too obvious, but apparently his true identity isn't known to Arcraem or he would have been called by his true name. He was probably very careful in creating an interface to Nexeus and maintaining several layers of indirection, and you'd have to actually look for him and know the whole story in order to figure it out. Salvos might, if the Archangel replays her the whole conversation, because she saw Trico in Samuel's memories. Samuel could too, if he's not hurt so much as to actively avoid it.

Toasty Anivia

While I think the theory that Soli is Trico is interesting… didn’t Sal meet Soli and the fairy queen back in book 5 or 6 to propose the bet on Salvos making it out of the bloodied gulf? I would think that while Sal was still in his avoidance mode, he wouldn’t fall for another trick from Trico willingly in such a manner…

Angworu

But a stronger vessel would probably be better, most of the temple priests are not that strong

Danijel Turina

"But why tell that bullshit to the Archangel?" - who knows who else is listening?

Danijel Turina

For someone as skilled as Trico, this is the last thing I would consider an issue. It's like asking how Belphegor can create a lvl 200 Golem or how Salvos can create a lvl 150 clone with skills and classes.

Brandon14754

remember worldwalkers can come from world's with their own systems so could have their own skills that they use, just because a skill is named doesn't mean it's from the nexus's system in terms of world walkers

Brandon14754

I wonder if he offers vessels something in exchange, if so and a church member's the one chosen their cost might be to kill salvos making the spirit lord an enemy of salvos officially

Travis Brown

Who, trico isn’t a part of the system, lvls are a part of his power base, and any mention of trico is because he’s the root cause of why the planet is dying

Alexey Gladkich

He shouldn't have access to the System. So, probably not. Unless he manages to fake the messages?

Angworu

But why tell that bullshit to the Archangel? He has nothing to gain by giving a fake justification to a person he is about to kill. It would only make sense if he is decieving the Spirits in the vicinity, but he already is their lord, or if he knew Edithe and co where hiding nearby. But if the second one is true, I doubt he would have just let them go. However, if it is his true motivation, he might have said this to try and sway the Archangel. Since the Archangel fight for "Justice for Nexeus" or something like that.

Blair

I don't think that Soli is Trico, since when Trico and Sal met the first time identification didn't turn up any result on him, even [???]. And it appears the system doesn't recognize them at all because it is explicitly stated that Sal wouldn't be rewarded for killing the other worldwalker. On the other hand, Soli does present with an identification, just not one Edithe can read.

Gonvas

Why do U guys think any +200 lvl character is Trico? xD IIRC, Alexander, Soli, Focalor, ...

Danijel Turina

"I get both sides and can't really decide myself." - I guess we'll find out soon enough; if not in this book, then the next one.

Danijel Turina

Knowing Samuel as well as he does, it would be easy for him to avoid giving himself away on those very short visits.

Dragonmaster_42

I get both sides and can't really decide myself. I lean towards "It's Trico!" because Samuel was a bit mentally unstable since the whole business started, making him easier to deceive.

Dragonmaster_42

I have to say, I'm an absolute sucker for explorations of the laws of nature and how characters (especially Salvos) can leverage them. Evolutions of characters and skills as well as some fights and dialogs explore that and these last chapters had heaps! Aside from that, I enjoy characters building relationships. Both to challenge my own views on nature and society. I think the Salvos series excells in both points! I'm seriously awed quite regularly!

Danijel Turina

I would pretty much assume it needs to be a voluntary act, and there are temples full of brainless zombie zealots in the Mortal Realm standing in line to offer themselves, so no.

Azrie

So, Soli needs a new vessel. Vessel is human. Edithe is around. Uh oh. Is it finally time for all the deaths she dodged to catch up to her? 😔

Użytkownik Przeciętny

Well its story about her, who else? :)

Brandon14754

Sal has met soli and was even gonna include him in the bet about salvos and belzu, I see there being almost no chance of it being trico.

Danijel Turina

I wonder when will Salvos reach the point where she actively accepts responsibility for the world, because, obviously, everyone she loves lives there.

Gonvas

IMO, both in terms of destruction and power the Devil's was superior. Trico went through all layers of the Netherworld. The 2nd time, it destroyed an army of Corruption that was giving trouble to Belphegor and even shook the end of the world. The Archangel's was stopped by Soli and caused a small crater. As for what Edith said, it has 0 credibility if U interpret it literally. She doesn't even understand the scale of the planes and the power of +200lvl beings.

Danijel Turina

“Purge the corruption, and rebuild the barrier. Then return to my side.” - oh goody, more Primordials for the final battle. :(

Danijel Turina

Wow, I just noticed this: “How did you like that? A gift to me from the Arcraem itself!” He just got the [Godkiller] skill as help from above. And I would say it's more-less a copy of Samuel's skill, because the System/Arcraem knows what actually worked against Trico the last time.

Danijel Turina

Yes, please. Without him, they are stranded and fucked there. Actually, Edithe would be worst off (is there actually any food that she can eat?), the others might get by until Salvos gets around to picking them up eventually. However, the way things are going, they have the crucial info that she needs, and also the Archangel needs to hear the stuff Salvos knows. I hope he's just injured, and Willy can heal him, powered by Edithe. Then they can start talking finally, because this fight was scary, the way Beast vs. Great Agarus was scary.

Zuuuuuri

I said more destructive not more powerful, Edithe said that if it wasn’t compressed by soli it probably would have destroyed half the spirit plane

Danijel Turina

We still don't actually know.

Danijel Turina

If I had to say what my favourite chapters are, it's the deep world structure and the interwoven spiritual philosophy, and deep interpersonal interactions, [Truth Divination] and similar. Sure, I understand that there must be connective tissue that binds the plot, but the deep stuff is the reason we care.

Danijel Turina

I really hope the Archangel will recover because otherwise they are stranded there.

Danijel Turina

Yes, this is actually excellent stuff, unlike the "here's the second stat dump in a row and they went from A to B, talked, then went to C and talked some more. Then stuff happened and someone else walked from A to B. :)

Danijel Turina

It absolutely is Trico. Remember how he convinced Samuel and the others to destroy their own world? Worldwalkers bad, need to prepare for war and destroy them? Same tune, slightly different words.

Danijel Turina

No, I'm sure the vengeance thing is bullshit, the way war against the worldwalkers he sold Samuel was bullshit. He just wants to destroy Nexeus and increase his own power. This is literally the second time he's selling the same war against the worldwalkers.

Danijel Turina

My hunch is that unlike those worldwalkers who strive for it, she actually has a chance of achieving it.

Gonvas

The Archangel one was only able to injure a vessel of a Supreme Spirit who managed to put up quite a resistance.

Gonvas

The time the Devil used vs Trico it seemed much stronger. A Worldwalker went through all layers in the Netherworld and was injured by it.

Zuuuuuri

That was the same skill that the devil has but… far more destructive. Also it appears that soli is a mad man who I give a 60% chance of being killed by salvos before he can possibly destroy the whole nexeus

Travis Brown

Gotta start with Trico

Travis Brown

I could see her taking it if there no responsibilities ooh idea what if she gets a corrupted version of that title

Tim

So Salvos should also aim for [True God], as an entity that stands on the same level or above the System then. Maybe that is what it takes to get rid of the corruption. I would have expected that a [Lesser God] would evolve into a [True God] but maybe there are more steps to that.

Angworu

So either Edithe and co are stuck or the Archangel can resurrect like most 200+ beings. Also I think Soli is not Triko. Unless Trikos first Visit to Nexeus was already motivated by vengeance

Travis Brown

Get up Ludex, get up

Użytkownik Przeciętny

Well they are full of lore and action..And also the plottwists. I liked the demon side more, but spirit side is also great. What next :)? All options are open again. And who will be the new unlucky vessel, by proxy Edithe?

Alexey Gladkich

I think Salvos has 0 interest in being a judge for somebody else.

John Ebbers

Will Salvos get the title [Judge Ordained by the Acraem] if the Archangel is actually dead? Somehow, even though he was crushed into a tiny ball, I think he will survive since he is a sacred spirit and he hasn't died yet in that fight. So he probably revived.

Justchillin

So not Trico then?

Alexey Gladkich

It seems people misunderstood and Arcraem is the True God of this world, i.e., Nexeus. Not some multiversal judge.

Seth Satterwhite

God damn

Plateworm

Damn.

Plateworm

Damn

Jeremy Young

Damn

MelasD

These chapters have been some of my favorite chapters to write in a while. Feed me thots


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