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Russian- Ukraine War Flash Report - July 11, 2023 12:30 PDT - Disappointment in Vilnius

🕑 Added 2023-07-11 20:08:14 +0000 UTC

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If Ukraine had been accepted into NATO then, rather than further weaken Putin, this might conceivably have boosted him. He'd use it as a validation of the reason Russia is in the war: they are responding to NATO expansionism and the West's goal to destroy Russia. Little old Russia is the victim of the "woke" West. This might work with internal Russian politics and with allies like China. In reality Ukraine will get the same military support and security guarantees regardless of this decision. NATO acceptance would become a talking point on Russian State TV and propaganda and so a needed distraction away from bad news and recent events. More talk about moving even closer to a nuclear war. Ukraine has good reason to fear that they might (again!) be sold short by their allies, but we have to consider how far this situation has moved on in the last 18 months. Ukraine will eventually be accepted into NATO and the EU. Those positions are unlikely to be bargained away in peace agreements now.

I don’t know what more Selenski should have hoped for(?) A candidate needs to have 1) a functioning democracy, not the case in martial law; 2) a functioning economy, not the case in a full scale war; 3) not be in a war or have disputed territory. All these requirements can only be fulfilled after a peace agreement has been achieved or waived. Plus the fourth stipulation that all members must agree means that the extraordinary actions of waiving all those requirements is impossible at the moment. If NATO waived all those requirements and Ukraine joined while at war with Russia that would mean NATO would be able to draw a line and say attack here or there and we will get involved, which as I understand has been communicated by the relevant members anyway. And what effect would it have on the Russian leadership? They would have clearer proof that they are threatened by NATO. How would that bring them to the table? Their argument is that their country is indefensible without a friendly Ukraine. So, it is a catch-22 from my perspective. This seems to be a “wait a little longer and see what happens “ answer. The current Russian mindset will not give up until either there are no more soldiers to throw at the front or they decide they are less threatened by peace. That is the question: what would bring about a Russian leadership that feels less threatened by peace. I doubt a clear path for Ukraine to join NATO is the answer.

Russian Lt. Gen. Oleg Tsokov was killed (with a Storm Shadow missile) Tuesday in Berdiansk, southeastern Zaporizhzhia. Each storm shadow costs $3.19 million USD and so really he should be flattered that Ukraine considered him worthy of a Storm Shadow! For example I don't think Ukraine would even commit a HIMAR ($100,000) on Shoigu and Gerasimov.

If only everyone were as serious as Poland.

Ethan Stein

Is it too much to hope for the non-export version?

Thank you for your comment. Not suggesting NATO go to war against Russia, but do believe that NATO and Western allies need to be better prepared for a land war against Russia, which is a partial insurance policy for land wars on a regional scale in other parts of the war. There is no way Ukraine can join NATO until hostilities are over and any dispute on borders have ended.

*the French SCALP-EG missile that's being donated by France is the same missile as the British Storm Shadow. Jointly developed.

Love the assessment, but I disagree with the conclusion. Ukraine cannot join NATO until the war is over. There is no path for NATO to just declare war on Russia over Ukraine. Ukraine will, someday, be a part of NATO, but only as a peace settlement of this war. We, unfortunately, have no choice but to continue to support Ukraine until they eventually defeat Russia. Which they will…eventually. This is my opinion only…don’t hate player…hate the game!

There was talk of an offer of an ‘Israel-style’ security guarantee for Kyiv. Some analysts consider this to be a more realistic option than a vague timetable for NATO membership with no short-term protections. "Under this ‘guarantee‘ the UK, United States, France and Germany will commit to a long-term plan to arm Kyiv to defend itself from Russian aggression." Also Zelenskyy may yet extract more short-term concessions by leveraging Ukraine's disappointment at not being offered NATO membership. Anyone else noticed that he's a pretty good politician for a comedian?!?! France is donating their long-range cruise missiles. Germany more armoured vehicles. Over to you President Biden...

Frustrating to say the least. There will never be an agreement with Russia on Ukrainians’ soil!

While the current political climate in Ukraine is largely pro-Western, it wasn’t many years ago that it wasn’t. I can understand why some members are unwilling to commit the power of NATO to a volatile situation. NATO’s integrity and unity is already compromised; I hope it remains the bulwark needed.

AnaR737

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/wagner-fighters-neared-russian-nuclear-base-during-revolt-2023-07-10/


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