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[2.20] ???

🕑 Added 2025-06-27 12:25:21 +0000 UTC

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Amitai

It was Zagreus, the chthonic equivalent to Dionysus and a past(ish?) life of Bakkhos.

Avo

Im of the thought that it was Heracles in the tomb of the orphic house that sol spoke to

Red Kite

Right so, going to voice some thoughts I’ve had on what we’ve learned from Selene. Sorry about this, but I’ve been thinking about it all day at work, and Now I’m going to make you all suffer it. First off, I think it’s important to remember that Sol and Griffon, at least for the moment, still follow the ‘logic’ of Greek Cultivation. There’s strong differences in how they reach those points, but they’re still philosophers making use of Rhetoric – they have burning hearts, but those are a product of Prometheus’ Ichor. Given Cultivation is cutlviating virtue, then being ‘Defined by Virtue’ means that they don’t need the same kind of introspection that most do in order to reach the same points. This doesn’t mean it’s perfect. I’ll get to that. With this in mind, I’ve been thinking over what we’ve learned, and realised that a lot of Sol and Griffons principles do line up with what we’ve learned. What’s interesting is how they’ve reached them (i.e. almost on instinct), and whilst we might see more changes due to their paths in the future, for now it does still line up pretty well. At least in the broad (not Plato) Sense. Philosophers Reason – The first thought you have that’s worth thinking, a Principle that will define the rest of your cultivation. For Griffon… we’ll get to the first one, but refined it’s “My Virtuous Heart will suffer nothing but the Truth”. He was lied to about and by his family for years, and increasingly realises that so much of the world is built on lies. Griffon wants the Truth, and refuses to be like those who lied to him. And of course, Truth must be known for something to be Judged properly and Justice done. For Sol, “The Captain Leads from the front”. Given his military past it’s not surprising, but it also tied into Gravitas and Sol’s sense of Duty. The captain must be the first into a battle and the last to retreat. Which also ties into his self-destructive tendencies when he feels he doesn’t measure up. Philosophers Passion – the forming of your own opinions, what you value about the path you’ve chosen. Being passion, it’s tied far more to emotion, the needs of the heart. For Griffon, it’s “Justice is whatever I can reach”. I’m honestly expecting this one to be explored more, and I might need to go back and read the Scene where Griffon gains it. From what I can recall though, I’d wager that it’s griffons desire to bring justice down on that which cannot be touched, such as the Higher powers. For Sol… We’ll get to him. And Philosophers Hunger – What drives you to push your understanding to maddening heights? For Griffon – “My virtuous Heart is MINE”. Griffon’s main driving force is for freedom, and his desire to unveil the Truths of the world, or find a way to reach and judge even that which can’t be touched, derives from this. For Sol – “I’ll RISE”. Sol’s statement when asked what he’ll do if heaven strikes him down. Sol is very much defined by getting back up after being knocked down, and he himself said that he’ll devour every scrap of knowledge he can to Rise to the point he needs to. That need to pick himself back up and push himself harder is an unconventional Hunger, but it’s a hunger nonetheless. Why am I bringing this all up? Well, because whilst Sol and Griffon are defined by their virtues, that’s just it – Their virtues define them, *not the other way around*. Sol -can- act without Gravitas. Griffon -can- be Unjust. And we’ve seen that with Griffons first Principle – “My Virtuous heart will not Tolerate a Lie”. He kept to the letter, but broke it in spirit. And he thought that was fine, was justice, and that if people didn’t see the truth, then it was their lack. But that wasn’t good enough, and it was only on gaining the ability to sense his own heart, as well as Scythas’ and Selene’s words that he began to realise that. If he hadn’t received that, he might be developing his own heart demons. And Sol… “I am a Raven, I am an Unkindness”. It’s the principle that almost broke him, because whilst it’s tied to his passions, it’s far more motivated by hate and vengeance than it follows Gravitas. Virtue is Performative Excellence, and where’s the excellence in this? What about this principle would make men follow Solus into battle? In both cases, the principles were Internalised without a solid consideration for what Justice and Gravitas mean. Justice is more than Not technically lying as you mislead and manipulate others. Gravitas is more than declaring you bear your dead mens grudges to act out a suicidal revenge. TL;DR, Whilst Sol and Griffon don’t act like regular cultivators, that doesn’t mean their cultivation doesn’t parallel the structure we’ve been shown. And being defined by their virtues doesn’t mean their actions will automatically be in line with them – they need to deliberately choose Justice and Gravitas, even if they come naturally. The Good news is that they don’t need a Map. The bad news is that this won’t stop them from Walking off a metaphorical Cliff if they don’t do some good hard Thonkening about what Justice and Gravitas mean. …Sorry, I got carried away and wrote almost 1000 words. Don't worry, this is pretty normal.

Red Kite

Quoth the Raven, "Go Fuck Yourself" :V


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