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The Delta Flyers - DS9 The Collaborator 224 Audio

🕑 Added 2024-10-21 04:00:05 +0000 UTC

Comments

Alicia Stolp

I respectfully disagree with the podcast hosts' interpretation of the orb visions. It wasn't that Bareil was feeling guilty. He didn't do anything wrong. The orb visions were the prophets telling him to take the blame for the massacre. Kira stabing him in the back is symbolic of her role in the investigation. "Accept this gift from the prophets" was their way of telling him not to fight the accusation, but to accept blame. He had to go back to that orb multiple times because he didn't understand at first and was trying to figure out what the prophets were trying to tell him. When you know the outcome of the episode and you go back and reflect (or watch the episode again), you see the beauty in the symbolism of those orb visions and they make sense. I love this episode.

Yule Tide

Ratings Robbie: 7. He is reluctant to go that high because he "really didn't love this episode." Garret expresses surprise it is that high. Robbie says, "Maybe I'm being generous." But he likes the performances especially by Nana Visitor and Louise Fletcher and others. But the episode itself, as a story, falls flat. Terry Ferrell: 6.5. She says "the structure of the story" bothered her. It didn't make sense and annoyed her at times because of too many "orb experiences." There were also lots of missing scenes and all got tired up too neatly in the end. Garrett: 5.1. "Because this is the worst romantic coupling in the history of Star Trek. I'm sorry. I can't get past that!" He says he was "rolling his eyes" at the romance from start to finish. Patreon patrons/fans: 7.3. Robbie got closest this time. This is an unusual case of all podcast hosts going too low. And Garrett off the fan average by over two full points. 1:02:30 -- 1:06:45

Elisabeth Westner

Nope, not all in your head. Going back after the fact and watching the earlier episodes totally reveals this to me too. Of course, I already know how it all turns out so that might play into how I see their interactions, but I do think the two characters really cared deeply for each other from the beginning of the series and the fact that Odo loves Kira isn't hard to see if you're looking for it.

Kathleen Scherrman

I liked the K&B relationship originally because the rellies on TNG were so crazy ... (other than Miles / Keiko) ... it was refreshing to see someone having a normal dating relationship. They also had a interesting dynamic of long distance aspect and their positions. On rewatch, I just feel like the way its played didn't age well. I get why RDM feels its creepy, but to me, its just the 90's soap opera aura.

Svpike

I agree with you, but it was still bad!

Mark K

Omg Troi and Worf, I had forgotten that one. Another misfired couple. Though I like the idea of Riker having to see Worf with Troi.

N Snow

So awesome to see you both at spacecon!

Joanne Morton, Positive Energy Artist

What is the name of the book? Sounds really interesting

Jess Hrudey

I only ever played in youth orchestras (so unpaid) but I feel this as a french horn player 😆

Elisabeth Westner

I think of it somehow being on a scale, that if you only need to learn and recite a few lines then you are putting in less time to learn them than the actors with lots of lines. And you are probably in a lot fewer scenes too. And I agree with RDM completely, even as a kid it used to bother me when someone was mime-acting, as he put it, because it was pretty obvious that the powers that be thought the mime-actors were a lot lower in the hierarchy than the main actors. (Can you tell I was a theater kid?) Although it's interesting that in the classical music world (I am a freelance violist), if my orchestra is playing a big symphony, everyone gets paid the same for the rehearsals and concerts no matter how many or how few notes they have. What matters is how much we need to be on stage, and even if you are playing almost the whole time or if you only play for five minutes out of the 70-minute symphony, you get paid the same. (Exceptions are the section principal players, who make a premium because they have extra responsibilities.) I like to joke that in some pieces the violins are playing all kinds of crazy fast notes and we violas are playing slow stuff in the background, which means I get paid a LOT more per note than they do. :-D

Elisabeth Westner

Ok, I will admit it: I really like this episode. I disagree with RDM, TerFar and GaWa that Kira and Bareil didn't have any chemistry, but I should also admit that I'm neurodivergent and maybe my feelings on interpersonal chemistry are different than other people's, who knows? Or maybe everyone's feelings on interpersonal chemistry are different? Hmmm, could be that, maybe? Anyway, you mentioned at some point that you were sure someone out there likes this episode and I feel the need to speak up and say that, yes, someone does! Trying not to spoil the series or anything, I also want to say that I really like K/B better than the relationship she has towards the middle of this series (UGH, I really don't like that one) but the one she has at the end of the series is my favorite of hers.

Elisabeth Westner

Interesting, that's a good point. Bareil sure does use the orb a lot in this episode, though. It never bothered me before but after this review now I'm thinking of the orbs as being some kind of mind-altering substance and that maybe they are kind of addictive in the way that drugs are? But nah, I don't think the writers wanted them to be that way and it really doesn't seem like they are.

Elisabeth Westner

Totally agree! I think K/B do have chemistry, too bad RDM, TerFar and GaWa don't agree with me. I was thinking that Troi/Worf was the worst relationship on Trek but I'd somehow *completely* blocked out Seven/Chakotay, which HANDS DOWN was the worst. And I agree with Mark K, Kes/Neelix was pretty ick too.

sgtb99

The whole Orb conversation misses the point. It’s about Bajoran spirituality. It’s not supposed to make sense, especially to us. There has to be a mystical quality. The brilliant writers created a whole new religion and it was front & center in DS9 intrigue. Sometimes the viewer is not supposed to understand stuff.

Mark K

Kes and Neelix was never a good one either.

sgtb99

I agree with everything you said except Seven and Rafi because before the second Picard, that’s when their relationship blossoms and there is an Audible book that chronicles that. I highly recommend it both actors do the reading of the story. It’s very good.

Andrew McKinley

I felt the whole the Bajorans could have used holograms to fool the Cardassians discussion missed the point somewhat. They're not Starfleet, they're a resistance group struggling to survive under a brutal occupation. They don't have unlimited resources, they do well just to make it to the next day.

James

As for Kira/Bareil being 'the worst relationship on star trek'...I don't agree at all. Have we forgotten Seven/Chakotay relationship coming out of nowhere, Seven/Raffi having no scenes or dialogue in PIC S1 and being together at the end then having an on/off relationship off screen between S1 and S2. At least Kira and Bareil have a relationship with a beginning so you can see where it came from and the ending (avoiding spoilers)

Jess Hrudey

I appreciate it so much whenever they mention their frustration that an actor wasn’t given a line, meaning they didn’t get paid as much. But I’m also curious if the actors guild has considered that it’s kinda unfair that people who don’t speak don’t get paid as much. Lots of human beings are non-verbal and find ways to communicate.

Mark K

I agree with this, it’s a great take. Bareil would always do whatever it took for the prophets. This will show again later in the series.

Mark K

To me the seeds were there just in the way they interacted with each other in earlier episodes too, but that may be all in my head lol

Emily Walker

The appearance of a character in a vision does not represent that specific person in real life, it’s just the Prophet choosing to appear as a familiar form to the recipient. So the important thing about a vision is the message, not the messenger. My understanding is that the Prophets wanted Winn to become the Kai, and were telling Bareil that he would have to suffer loss instead of fighting (by revealing the truth). Either he was resistant to the message, or was doubting his interpretation of it, hence the need for repeated visions. That is why he refused to reveal the truth - obedience to the Prophets.

Kevin Greene

Armin's home should be called The Swink or Shwim. : )

Andrew Cano

I’m grateful Garrett read the note about Odo’s reaction to Kira admitting she loved Bareil. I too wondered if the seeds for that story were already being intentionally planted.

Mark K

What Garrett says about Bariel using the orbs so often. I always remembered that the Vedek’s have access to the orbs unlike the public. They can use them as often as they want.