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Chapter 1043 - More Questions Than Answers
🕑 Added 2024-12-17 12:25:10 +0000 UTCThe question from the First Sage hung in the air for several seconds as Jake digested it. He had well and truly expected the First Sage to know all about Jake from the beginning, seeing as he seemed almost all-knowing... yet from his question, it was almost the exact opposite. Something that just didn’t track his expectations at all and made Jake question the old man.
“You really don’t know?” Jake genuinely asked.
“I only ask questions for good reasons, more often than not, as a means to make the other party consider a matter deeper. This is not one of those cases. I truly do not know who you are, something it appears you find perplexing,” the First Sage answered. “If it brings you any comfort, I also find it highly perplexing that I do not know who you are and how exactly you got here.”
“You reached out to me first,” Jake pointed out as he even went as far as to point to his boots as he slighly lifted up the flap... only to see the inscribed words gone.
The First Sage looked at Jake’s boots and, before Jake had time to panic about the change to the item, spoke. “I will indeed reach out that way to you, and I will indeed gain some insight into your capabilities of experiencing the past when you visit with me during my teaching of Vilas.”
“You are speaking in future tense,” Jake muttered.
“Because I’ve yet to do any of those things,” the First Sage gave a very non-answer. “Truthfully, I didn’t know you would appear here and now either. What is happening right now is all new to me. New memories and Records are being formed for both you and I. So I truly do wish to know who you are.”
Jake considered things for a bit until he ultimately decided just to be truthful. The First Sage was clearly being very mysterious, but Jake felt no malice from him at any point, only curiosity. There was also the fact that Villy had trusted his teacher so much, and Jake felt a certain level of second-hand respect for the G-grade human sitting in front of him.
“My name is Jake Thayne, and I’m a rather recently integrated human in the ninety-third universe,” Jake said. “I’m also a friend of the Malefic Viper... or Vilas, as you know him.”
The First Sage nodded along and smiled. “I find the usage of the word friend odd here. From what I see, you are his Chosen, are you not?”
“Being his Chosen and his friend aren’t mutually exclusive,” Jake shrugged, not even bothering to ask how the old man knew about Chosen or gods in the first place, as when he died, there hadn’t been any gods yet. It was very evident by now the First Sage knew far more than he could possibly be supposed to.
“Some would argue those two are indeed mutually exclusive,” the First Sage couldn’t help but smile. “Then again, I guess you balance things out with a healthy dose of heresy.”
Again, not even worth pointing out how the hell he knew Jake was also a heretic, something pretty much no one else could detect through Shroud of the Primordial and Jake actively trying to hide it.
“What can I say? We have a unique relationship,” Jake once more shrugged, not exactly sure what to say.
“That, I do not doubt,” the First Sage said, pausing a bit as he changed the topic. “How is he doing? Vilas, that is.”
The question surprised Jake a bit as it seemingly came out of nowhere and was once more the kind of thing Jake halfway expected the human to already know. Still, it made Jake a bit happy the old man asked.
“I wish I could just say he’s doing well, but it’s complicated,“ Jake sighed. “I don’t want to divulge his personal issues, but I can say that he lost people he really cared about a very long time ago, and that still haunts him even now. He is doing a bit better recently I hope, but before this era, he spent many eras never leaving his divine realm.”
“I see,” the First Sage muttered before sighing. “Bloodlines truly are double-edged in nature, giving so much, yet they also have demands. Not being able to forget seems like something that’s purely a boon, but you do not know how privileged you are to be able to leave unpleasant memories in the past. How lucky it is that time can heal wounds of the mind, something he and I cannot experience. Though I reckon you do understand the double-edged nature of Bloodlines to some extent, seeing as you have quite the potent Bloodline yourself.”
Jake let a lot of weird stuff slide, but this one he couldn’t help but question: “How do you know the Viper has your Bloodline?”
“Some questions are too complicated to answer given the time we are given, and the knowledge will bring you no benefits,” the First Sage shook his head. “Suffice to say, I do know some things. I know who Vilas became and that he is now known as one of the twelve Primordials. I also know the other eleven Primordials. Valdemar, Eversmile, Wyrmgod, Stormild, Blightfather, Holy Mother, Yggdrasil, Aeon, Rigoria, Starseizing Titan, and of course the Daofather.”
“Do you also know who Umbra is?” Jake tried asking.
“She is the Leader of the Court of Shadows,” the First Sage casually answered. “I also know... no... knew of Yip of Yore. A talented one, but foolish in his ambition.”
“You said you knew of him... as if...” Jake tried testing the man in front of him. Something he instantly caught onto.
“I know that Yip of Yore is dead, killed by the Malefic Viper,” the First Sage said with a smile. “As I said, I know a lot of things you rightfully assume I shouldn’t. Know of a lot of people I have no reason to know of. Yet when it comes to you, I know nothing. Which is indeed quite perplexing, seeing as you have karmic connections with your fair share of Primordials.”
“It sounds like you know about gods, so why is it odd you don’t know me?” Jake questioned.
“Because I know of Jacob. Of Carmen. The one who calls himself the Sword Saint, Arnold, and many more who share deep connections with powerful gods, especially Primordials or Void God Oras in the case of the man called Arnold,” the First Sage explained, Jake staring at him genuinely shocked.
“But you... with you, I draw a blank. I genuinely have no idea who you are or where you came from, yet I get the strong feeling I should know.”
“Is it because of my Bloodline?” Jake instantly asked, assuming it had to play a part, as when weird stuff was going on, it was usually related to Bloodlines.
“I don’t know that either, but I do find it a safe assumption, seeing as you’re not a Transcendent,” the First Sage responded with a smile. “I find this all rather exciting. I’m learning quite a few new things today.”
Jake really wanted to try and get to the bottom of this, but he knew he wasn’t going to get an explanation. So, instead, he asked something else, changing the topic drastically.
“Say... this may seem abrupt, but the Malefic Viper said he killed you... that you asked him to kill you,” Jake asked without truly asking. Because, honestly, by now, Jake seriously doubted that had actually happened as he began to believe that instead the First Sage had-
“He will indeed be the one who slays me,” the First Sage simply nodded in confirmation. “And I will ask him to do that not far in the future.”
“Why?”
“That is the most complex question you’ve asked so far,” the First Sage kept smiling. “All I can tell you is that it had to be done, and it laid the foundation for the Malefic Viper one day becoming who he is today, getting the Bloodline he now wields.”
“So you did have some greater purpose,” Jake muttered to himself. “What exactly happened? Did you find a way to merge with the system? Avoid death? Was it even the real you the Viper killed?”
He still had so many damn questions and theories. The old man had knowledge of the present day, which had to mean he had some connection to it, right? Also, to Jake, it simply didn’t make sense that someone as powerful as the First Sage would simply allow themselves to die like that.
However...
“Jake. I am a human. Born a human, died a human. I am no spirit, no aspect of the system... just an old librarian who tried to do things that couldn’t and perhaps shouldn’t be done,” the First Sage answered. “My death at the hands of Vilas was a true one, and that day, my Path ended.”
“It... just doesn’t make any sense,” Jake protested. “Why the hell would you just let yourself die? Also, if you did die, then how can you still-“
“Nothing I can say will ever satisfy your curiosity or innate need for answers,” the First Sage lifted a hand to interrupt Jake. “Words are powerful. This was one of the first things I taught Vilas, and I hope he also taught you the same. Some things I simply will not say because they are too dangerous to speak into existence.”
“Is there also some Forbidden Knowledge in there?” Jake questioned further, thinking maybe that was part of the explanation.
“My mere existence is considered Forbidden Knowledge, so no, there is nothing I cannot say. Usually, knowledge of me is kept hidden by the fact no one can speak to me... yet the system has given permission for this meeting,” the First Sage shook his head as he looked at Jake. “I see you doubt that statement?”
“From what I have been told, you were quite proficient in fooling the system,” Jake pointed out. “I halfway assumed this entire scenario came about due to that proficiency.”
“Fooling the system, huh...” the First Sage said, shaking his head in disbelief. “You cannot fool that which is omnipotent and omniscient. I cannot, Vilas cannot, and you cannot. What we can do is bend the rules a little, but do not be illusioned, all happens with the full knowledge and permission of the system. Once more, I would have expected my disciple to have explained this to you.”
“He probably did,” Jake muttered as he kept looking at the old man sitting in the chair across from him. “Still. Why would the system allow you to bend the rules if it could stop you?”
“For the same reasons that it allows Bloodlines and Transcendents to exist. The system has infinite power, infinite potential, infinite knowledge... yet it remains imperfect. Do you know why?”
The First Sage looked at Jake with expectant eyes, making the poor hunter wrack his brain. He remembered prior conversations, and an answer quickly came to him.
“It’s still growing.”
“That is half the answer indeed,” the First Sage smiled proudly. “The system cannot change by itself, but it can learn. We are the impetus of its learning. Free will is a subject I know is much discussed, but do allow me to clarify that it’s absolutely real. In fact, it’s the one thing I can guarantee to exist, for without free will, there would be no change. The system emphasizes choice above nearly anything else, and the choices we make are what shapes the system and our collective future.”
The First Sage stood up after saying this as he went over and opened a small window, looking outside at the recently system-integrated land. “The first era was more flawed than you can even begin to imagine. The system had a lot to learn then. And learn it did. It’s an endless process that we are here to spur on... Transcendents and those with Bloodlines more than everyone else.”
“Why does the system even care about improving?” Jake asked.
“It doesn’t,” the First Sage smiled. “Your question is flawed in the first place. The system doesn’t want anything. It merely is. Surely, you must have heard the usual comparisons between the system and natural laws? The system is indeed just a natural law... a far more complex one than any other that supersedes and encompasses all other natural laws, but a natural law nonetheless.”
Jake did indeed know many of these things, yet he saw incredible value in having the First Sage say the same. It could be compared to having read something on the internet at one point and having that same something confirmed by the leading scientist on that topic... one source was just way more reliable than the other.
However, despite the conversation being rather enlightening – if not super informative, as the First Sage had been so damn mysterious – Jake began to question why he was actually there. He had to remind himself that he had spent five entire uses of Path of the Heretic-Chosen to meet the First Sage. That was 100 levels worth of uses accumulated for this one meeting... but all he had gotten so far was a conversation. Based on how long prior visions had been, this one should also be coming to a close soon.
“Hey... this may come off a bit wrong, but what was the purpose of this meeting?” Jake asked after the two of them had been silent for a good ten seconds, the First Sage just looking out the window during all this time.
“I don’t know, and you never answered how you got here,” the First Sage answered calmly. “I made clear why I wanted to see and know about you, but you never returned that sentiment. So do enlighten me... how and why are you truly here?”
“I used a skill to get here... one that allows me to see Record Fragments related to the Legacy of the Malefic Viper,” Jake just answered honestly. “However, usually, I do so as an intangible entity that cannot interact with the world but only experience it through the body of the Malefic Viper. The primary use of the skill seems to be to upgrade other Legacy Skills. At least, that’s how I used it thus far. When in C-grade, I could focus not only on a skill I wanted to upgrade but also a person... and with your nudging message, I focused on you when I used the skill this time around, the cost being pretty damn big as I could usually experience five visions with what I spent on this one.”
He really held nothing back as he explained everything to the First Sage, once more seeing no reason to. In fact, quite the opposite, as maybe it could help Jake get something out of this encounter.
“Quite a peculiar and powerful skill,” the First Sage nodded, not asking for any further explanation. “It does explain a few things, including the manifestation of this world and the new Records you are allowed to bring and absorb.”
“Truthfully, I still have a hard time understanding the skill,” Jake shrugged. “It’s also unique rarity, by the way.”
“I figured as much. The Path you walk does strike me as rather unique, being both a Chosen and a Heretic, something I assume is related to your Bloodline,” the First Sage casually commented. “However, hearing your explanation, it seems as if you are meant to gain some benefit from this vision, as you call it, am I correct?”
“That’s how it usually goes,” Jake shrugged. “This one is clearly different in nature, though. First time I can actually talk to someone and have a physical body and not just be a ghost on the wall. Also, I don’t get anything every time. It’s just an opportunity to get benefits.”
He had really hoped to get something good from using five charges, though.
“What kind of visions do you usually experience?” the First Sage questioned.
“There’s no set kind, but usually some important and impactful moment revolving around a skill. But, again, that probably happened because I used the unique skill while focusing on a Legacy skill.”
“That does explain why you appeared during the use of my Transcendent skill back then,” the G-grade human in front of Jake nodded as he seemed in thought for a while.
Jake remained quiet, not really sure what to say or ask. To be clear, he still had a fuckload of questions, just none he assumed he would actually get an answer to. In fact, he felt as if this entire conversation had just left him with more questions than answers.
After what felt like ages, the First Sage nodded and spoke to himself. “Let us do that.”
The old man turned away from the window and looked at Jake. “It seems only proper. Also, you are the friend of my disciple, so you should get some benefits from this encounter... but before we get to that, would you like to join me on a walk down memory lane?”
Comments
Miguel Angel Guevara Andrade
Thx for the chapter
Stephen
I'm glad I wait to read chapters in bulk. It's much better than hanging onto a cliff and waiting. Can't wait to see where this leads.
Rewdan
I don’t see Villy having this desire he’s stronger than the FS in regards to the transcendence. He mentioned this when discussing with Jake about killing the FS.
Chloe
Tyftc
Chase Burton
Tftc!
NerdyFellow
What if he is the origin of the system
Jeff McCulley
Well, I suspect that Jake is about to get a Transcendence, so….
Kt-x
Thanks for the chapter!
SmokeJam
Villy is a horrendous example here as his bloodline is not natural and he was transcendent before he got it
Lizy Flore
I think you see the system as a conscious being. But the system isn’t a being, or conscious. It’s simply an ensemble of incredibly complex laws working together to set the multiverse right. Jake is part of those laws, imo. It’s not that the system cares or doesn’t care. If, as an end result, Jake changes the system, then it’s all the same to it. At least, that’s how i see it
martin smith
I think there can be levels of omnipitance and omniscience the same way all infinities are not necessarily equal and can just be a subset of a larger infinity.
Stuart McCabe
Its not impossible its just that the bloodline and the transendence must be unrelated. So Jake is kinda screwed cuz his bloodline permeates everything he does pretty much, alchemy included. The First Sages bloodline just means he remembers everything he experiences perfectly so transendences are easier to weave around the limitations.
Tr0LLach
With the First Sage confirming System's omniscience, the big question becomes: Why would the System allow Jake to exist? As an E grade he was able to resist the control of Primordials (Villy's presence, Eversmile's timestop). As he grows it seems obvious that his bloodline would allow him to also shrug off the System's attempts to contain/control him. Even more worrying would be his Origin manipulation. What if he grows to the point he can control the Origin of the System? If the Sage is right and the System is aware of this, then we also must consider System helping Jake (sim-jake situation, allowing this meeting, etc.) as deliberate attempts to get Jake strong enough to make that happen. Why would the System trust Jake to take it in a positive direction? Or does it truly not care and sees all change as "growth"?
Joseph Irdanto
Don't forget that FS is also the one noticed Villy when he was stumbling to create health potion, early on in his journey as Alchemist. Years before FS and Villy actually met. Jake noticed this on one of his vision.
Sam
Little nervous about the reminder that words spoken aloud have power because during his rant, Jake told the viper that his path forward required the viper's death (worst chosen ever chapter)
Joshua Little
Thanks for the chapter.
Andrew K
There have been comments floating around for a while about the possibility of Jake paradoxically eventually (from Jake's point of view) becoming the origin of the system, but it occurs to that there could be enough wiggle room for a paradox-free version of this to be true. Besides the obvious origin-related stuff that makes people speculate about the paradoxical versions of this, the heart of the idea is based on two major considerations: - While we haven't seen actual time travel from his bloodline-related abilities, we have seen extreme ability to manipulate the relative rate at which time passes. - When Jake tried to suppress his unique characteristics as a young age, this could be seen as inherently involving extreme tension between various facets of the primary motivations we now see reflected in his bloodline. Notably, the survival-oriented and challenge/excellence-seeking aspects would naturally strongly reject the action, but the aspects related to superiority/willpower would demand that his will to be able to fit with the world around him be respected. The potential paradox-free system origin idea is therefore that: - The conflict between the various goals was resolved by instinctively/subconsciously doing something to defuse the conflict, in the form of creating the "seed" of the system with the intent that it be able to bring about a situation that would greatly reduce the conflict between the various goals. - The temporal-related facets of his abilities were then used to accelerating the seed's temporal reference frame to let it "take root" in another universe where time flows much more quickly. (Or alternatively, slowing passage of time across Jake's home universe, but that seems crazier.) This allowed the system plenty of time to grow enough to be able to provide the desired alternate environment before Jake's otherwise-likely-inevitable death due to old age. (This could also imply that a lot of each era's apparent duration could be due to some form of energy requirements for bringing other universes to a matching time progression rate.) Like a paradox-based version of the Jake creating the system idea, this would still have Jake be quite special to the system for reasons the system could reasonably want to conceal. Specifically, Jake realizing too soon just how much influence he had/has over the system could potentially ruin the experience for him, and the system could therefore reasonably have a hidden motivation to hide information, manipulate events, and even employ misdirection to try to prevent/delay the truth coming out (but also limited in how far it can go without giving the game away or breaking deeper constraints it needs to follow, like being naturally limited in its ability to oppose certain aspects of Jake's bloodline). If this is all true, a lot of the implications around the First Sage are still pretty similar to what they would be for the paradox-based versions of Jake creating the system. The original First Sage's extreme outlier status would still naturally be a focal point for how the system would develop, and the system's origin/motivations could still be very tightly tied to why the First Sage eventually decided to die and/or why he became forbidden knowledge. However, this paradox-free idea has some real differences for Jake's interaction here, as instead of presumably being a key step in fulfilling a predestination paradox, this conversation with a simulacrum of the First Sage would be a potentially very high-risk action on the system's part (in terms of Jake possibly getting information that would let him figure this all out sooner), but also high potential reward (in terms of delaying things if Jake is misled in just the right way). Certainly possible I'm forgetting a detail at some point that would wreck this idea (or that something tomorrow will wreck it), but the worst impediment I can specifically recall at the moment is stuff about pre-integration cross-universe similarities around major names/legends, and that doesn't seem like a showstopper - it could easily be that the existing explanation is materially correct, it's just a little wrong/incomplete about how far back the cross-universe influences go. Might also be some apparent issues around how much historical information the gods were able to get about Jake's universe pre-integration, but this could have explanations as well (like the system accessing some records from beyond the itself, or just doing a really good time reversal simulation to fake it).
Lizy Flore
Imagine having a bunch of sim-jakes doing instinct stuff, origin calculations stuff, time shenanigans stuff and perception stuff all at the back of your mind 😂😂 one would be « GO BEAT THEM UP THAT’S OUR PREY » the other « WAIT WE NEED THEM FOR THAT TIMELESS PRIMAL ORIGIN RITUAL »
Matthew Parker
As I was rereading through comments a horrible thought came to mind. Is Villy going to ask Jake to kill him in the end for the same reason first sage had villly kill him? They both go all out in the most epic fight ever! Make me sad just thinking about it.
Thatguycant
It's not impossible just extremely difficult I think it's because the transcendent skill can't overlap with what the bloodline does from my understanding so the more powerful and encompassing the bloodline the harder it is to get a transcendent skill.
Jordan Rogers
They are both individually rare, so having both is even more rare except for the very strong tiered. Because they are ancient and many eventually gain them but still rare
Lawrence Dillon
Villy has both
Bryn Thomas
You can have both - Villy and the First sage are both examples of this
Justin Moen
Ah! That’s a great idea too!
HardcoreLace756
I'd assume it's because you can, it's just so absurdly difficult that everyone calls it impossible. Or it's just more first sage shenaniagans
Drew G
I thought people with bloodlines couldn’t have transcendent powers and vice-versa? The Sage just said he saw him when he used his transcendent powers. Did I miss something?
SmokeJam
While an interesting theory worth exploring, that would need multiple weird actions for him to return in a form where he can be an enemy. He really died and the meeting here takes place way before everything else. While I would concede that the system is obviously trying something by permitting two immense outliers of the human race to meet, I do not believe the Sage has enough left of him to become a real entity again. Maybe he is forbidden knowledge to precisely make such a move impossible. Records are weird man
SmokeJam
I forgot that then, thanks for the reminder!
BearHandMan
Wait, whatcha mean?
Dray Kruesi
Sounds like it's time for a deep dive into system mechanics
Lizy Flore
I wonder if the FS not knowing Jake has sth to do with his Origin abilities. If Jake is related to Origins (origin of the universe, origin of the system, origin of records, origin of time, origin of everything) and if the FS is only the Librarian of Records and has transcend/bloodline powers related to that, then it would make sense that the FS would not know about Jake. Rather than the FS existing outside time, it might be that Jake, instead, exists outside time and records. Those are the feels this chapter gave me, anyways.
Miguel Sanchez
Like something similar as Valdemar?
BJ
I think First Sage is like those entities in movie Arrival. He exists or experiences time not linearly but all at once.
Gman
This will be far fetched but I believe First Sage will be the ultimate enemy at the end. He somehow messed with the system or took advantage of it to the point where system made him into forbidden knowledge. But I think the system is trying to fix that problem by introducing Jake to him. System is going to power up Jake to crazy levels and then showdown between him and first sage. Which would explain why FS doesn't know anything about Jake. Because its the system shielding him from FS. its like Jake is Forbidden Knowledge for just FS and not anyone else. I also think Jake's time affinity will be why he is the one to take FS down.
Leo Jeral
Going with some people's comments about time not being linear, maybe when the sage's records went to the system and he gained some type of insight, he saw everyone else's records who eventually go to the system. Could be he has knowledge of Jake because Jake never dies?
Gman
So, First Sage is dead. D-E-D. but I think he used his bloodline to not only remember his own history/records but all of the records of the multiverse. Transcendence maybe. If someone is to go back from 100th era to meet First Sage like Jake is doing now. First Sage would have knowledge of everything that happened up to 100th era. its almost like he exists outside time. Only question is why he doesn't know anything about Jake. Can't be the shroud as he clearly knows Jake is Heretic/Chosen. Must be Jake's bloodline somehow messing with FS bloodline or transcendence. I also find it interesting that he's implying its the system that made him into forbidden knowledge. well for everyone except Jake/villy
Admorias
Would be wild if Jake was an administrator
Michael Ferguson
What can the sage teach Jake if he doesn't know him? He doesn't know what Jake needs. Some perspective on how he transcended with a bloodline would be cool.
Michael Ferguson
That primal energy doing something unique, as usual.
Michael Ferguson
Jake juice is blocking the sage for sure. Weird, what does primal have to do with stopping the sage from seeing. Why ask about how Villy is doing? I think Jake juice is powering up the Viper's Shroud, but the sage can see Jake is a heretic chosen, with a bloodline? Confusing. Like he can see what is in front of himself but not Jake's path so far.
Asher Mack
damn that’s kinda nutty
kingofshibainu
Like most, speculating the sage helps him with a skill ... "Maybe" a transcendence. Either way, TRAINING MONTAGE. Looks like the FS somehow integrated himself into the records of the system and has causality and time shenanigans going on. Finally, maybe Jake's bloodline is connected to the origin of predating system itself?
Asher Mack
I think that’s what we’re hoping for but I’m gonna keep my mind open because there is likely room for a lot of growth or powerful knowledge outside of that too
Michael Ferguson
I'm excited! Got me, I thought Jake asked who are you. Thanks for the chapter. Can't wait to see what lies down memory lane.
Andrew Glass
That’s a weird way to put it, since the universe isn’t like a ‘thing’ it’s more of a concept of space I guess? It’s not really omnipresent. Regardless, I wasn’t describing omniprescence, I was talking about power and knowledge. You either have it all or you don’t there are no other alternatives in the definition of omniscience and omnipotence.
Naomi Roberts
Awesome words.
MacMahon Wenzl
Yeah, I mean his Jake Juice, origin Juice.
Cody
I think he means the Jake juice given by his Primeval Origins moniker.
Ender419
This would be awesome.
Ender419
Preach brother!!
Accio123
Origin mark is from Defiance of the fall... was there something else you meant?
Charles Travasos
True. Didn’t think about the reverse side of things. Damn
Luke Scheffe
Some of that is just his primordial skill from Villy.
Davey876
He saw no reason to hold anything back. Pretty sure the way zog wrote it is correct
DrSubterfuge
It isn't omnipotence or omniscience if you have to put qualifiers on it. Not having the capacity to do something is antithetical to the premise of omnipotence. Having to learn something is antithetical to the idea of omniscience.
MacMahon Wenzl
Does that mean villy will gain some knowledge from the first sage? Maybe nothing directly related to Jake but if Jake influences some thing than the Viper will learn of it. There's a huge potential paradox waiting to implode. If the first sage knew of the future eras because of his bloodline, and knew he needed to die. Then when the Viper got the bloodline then he would know the same things. It starts to become a bootstrap paradox of knowledge...
Vinstro
Nicely done!
MacMahon Wenzl
I think it probably along the right path to say that Jake's bloodline isn't just being able to resist suppression. That's probably a lower level function of the bloodline. If he can resist God's why not also be able to resist the system itself?
Charles Travasos
I think is as good an explanation as any
MacMahon Wenzl
He could just start dispelling certain predictions made in the comments.
MacMahon Wenzl
That would be funny and truly worth it. He's already breaking so many conversations, why not topple the tower now!
MacMahon Wenzl
If the markings on the boots are gone, yet they will eventually appear, that means time isn't linear... as far as we know. Does that mean the First Sage will give Jake something he already has? Like what if Jake's Origin juice is actually given to him in this encounter. His knowledge of it going forth will be greater and he will have more control over it but since time isn't linear, by gaining the origin Juice now he will also be giving it to himself in the past?
Davey876
I really hope he gets a transcendence or learns how to get one without his bloodline interfering.
Johnny
I’m guessing devolve should be delve? (Vilas’s personal issues)
Ty Cooper
Lol Zog is taking off next two weeks and I can see a crazy cliffhanger coming on Friday. You will probably get your wish.
TwistedVanity
EDIT don’t want to devolve his personal issues, but DIVULGE his personal issues
Ty Cooper
Jake's bloodline is to powerful that it is restricted knowledge and since Jake is every bit a piece of the bloodline. So maybe that restriction applies to all of Jake? The system doesn't want all the gods to find out his secrets till he is strong enough to deal with them? Lots of speculation
Azayrian105
It could be that Jake could be something like a System administrator kind of thing with his bloodline. He controls the origin and almost all things within his domain or Pulse of Perception. Think back to how he made the entire world malleable when he was in the Coliseum fighting Valdemar. So his being outside of the system in these circumstances might be explained that way.
Ty Cooper
I'm guessing alchemist purification turning it into origin purification. Reduces whatever Jake wants into its origin energy to do as he wishes.
Ty Cooper
Right!
Nick
Thank you for writing such an excellent story. A lot of times I have expected it to go one way but you always take it in a direction I did not expect, for the better.
Jose Reyna
TFTC
Dan
This week's chapters are addicting, I don't care if this whole week is Jake spending time with the Sage, we've been waiting too long for this encounter for it to be over quick
Shadowessence
No its gonna be upgrade to human teaching skill, the one he never really uses, that would be perfect, human based knowledge based, and a legacy skill for humans. Named sages primal teachings lol
Steven Tuttle
That would be awesome
Tsurani
His use of devolve makes me wonder if he speaks French. Devoiler, to reveal.
A nice fire
It is omniscient and omnipotent up through the 93rd universe. There are more to integrate, and I assume it needs the multiverse to grow enough for its capacity to allow it to integrate a new universe.
Cody Robinson
So i wonder if the first sage helps jake fix palate because didn't he use a trancendent skill to help the viper finish creating sagacity?
deednam
If all you know and control is a kid sized sand box as a child thrn you can certainly expand it's expansion is just on another scale entirely
Lucas Posner
I mean consider the universe, right? Like it encompasses everything that exists, the universe is omnipresent, but it can still literally grow larger and expand. I see the system as the same, where it is everything but the people making choices are able to grow and expand what “everything” actually means
Brian Stein
I never really thought about it until now, but Jake probably had “Primal Knowledge” from this bloodline of the Primal Hunter. A Hunter’s knowledge. Different than a scholars knowledge, but probably insanely powerful, and obviously tied to instincts as we’ve seen his instincts all along. My best guess is Jake gets a transcendent skill that lets him gain insights and some sort of scholarly knowledge based upon of his instincts/“Primal Knowledge”.
Matthew Parker
I think when the sage died and his soul or his records went back to the system his transcendence gave him access to all of the records that make up the entire system. For some reason that I can't think of none of Jake's records are merging with the system and that's why the sage has no idea who he is.
Brian Stein
That would be sick. The sage starts talking to Zogarths audience 🤯
Abhishek
Will Jake get a transcendent skill??!!!!
Red45jimster
Idk if jake will get one but something like the primal hunt would be sweet to hunt a predator way stronger than himself
Andrew Glass
I think the idea of omniscience and omnipotence also growing doesn’t make any sense. You can’t know literally everything and have literally power over everything that exists and then also grow. If you know everything and have power over everything, that’s it. There is nothing to grow towards.
Joao Vitor Franca
Literally one of the most waited-for moments in the story, and people still complain. That’s crazy to me.
Nick O'Gara
I'm waiting for the sage to break the 4th wall.
Frost1005
Tftc
John
“I don’t want to divulge his personal…” Instead of devolve Great chapter thanks!
ABTelford
Nice! I of coarse want more 😉. But this left me feeling quite satisfied. Thanks!
Seamus Harley
A funky transcendent would be interesting.
Phasmatic7
Thankies for the chapie zogie
Trevor Mergen
Thanks!
Quinn
Is it annoying? We have to wait for the conversation to continue 100% but it is definitely a chapter. One that’s most likely setting up for tomorrow.
Quinn
Not trying to argue, but I do disagree. You gotta remember we all read this one chapter at a time conversations like this normally happen over 3 to 5 chapters. This is really only the first conversation yesterday was more of a set up in my opinion.
Pekka Kohonen
I think the Sage is not effected by Forbidden Knowledge. But Jake (or at least his bloodline) is something else, something beyond the system. If the Sage is still connected to the system (or at the same level of awareness) maybe that is why he cannot perceive Jake, he is an "outside context problem"... Jake is "Primal" whereas the others are "Primordial": Things that are primordial existed as the Earth (System) was forming. Things that are primeval were around in the early ages after the Earth (System) was formed. What does primal mean? The adjective primal describes something that's essential or basic, like the primal urge to protect yourself and your family from harm. Primordial is related to time. But Primal is related to essence or being. And being is timeless. So maybe Jake's bloodline is beyond time but the Sage is still in Time, just encompassing all of it.
Cody
I hope this conversation goes for weeks.
Corac
Time heals all wounds. Because memory fades and dulls the pain. That isn't possible for villy. So not many ways to heal from wounds left by lost love ones if distance in time is not available. I can't think of any, not even resurrection would fix it I think
Joseph Irdanto
My theory is Jake's Bloodline never allow something to be superior to him, including the system. Hence he will not get any negative effect due to system interference. Just like when he update the Moment skill.
JJB4345_80_815
For my theory, it's the combination of the Bloodline + Death by Villy that allows BACK seepage. Theoretically, if someone were to kill Villy and then acquire the Bloodline of the Immortal Mind THEN Villy should be able to see into his killer's future. As to why there isn't forward seepage from FS to Villy? I dunno. Maybe the Immortal Mind bloodline is loyal to the First Sage, it's originator? Maybe the bloodline recognizes time as linear and doesn't believe that since it's Immortal it should rehash stuff from a previous sapience? Some sort of time loop paradox mumbo jumbo, like concurrent backward and forward seepage creating bad mojo? I'm spitballing here, just seeing if anything sticks...
TyranT-Rex
We knew for a while that the first sage had both. We always knew he had that bloodline and Jake saw him use the transcendence to help villy learn sagacity. Villy also told Jake that the Sage and multiple transcendent skills.
TyranT-Rex
Haha I alos like how he plainly says, he's a human, born and died a human and isn't some aspect of the system.
Devillelouch
He didnt really ask Villys question. No way Jake is going to return without something fun to tell the Viper right?
Samuel Granderson
I feel like the First Sage is going to assist Jake in molding some of his personal skills, setting them up to become powerful Legacy Skills of the Primal Hunter when he becomes a god. I would love to see Jake start to work towards his own legacy, or altering the Viper’s legacy skills more to make them his own.
TyranT-Rex
I had the same thought as you, but couldn't explain why the Sage wouldn't know Jake in that case.
Alexander C Hyde
He really held nothing back as he explained everything to the First Sage, once more seeing no reason (not) to.
joel southard
Nice thank you for the chapter.
Noah Mclelland
Then shouldn't it also be vice versa with villy having the memories from the first sage? I mean, still a cool theory.
kinglemur
I hope Jake gets a transcendent skill
Tommy
I dunno if it was a typo but first sage said “Surely, you must have heard the usual comparisons between the systems and natural laws? The system is indeed just a natural law... a far more complex one than any other that supersedes and encompasses all other natural laws, but a natural law nonetheless.” Systems - multiple. Is there more than one perhaps? I also think that the first sage figured out how to look at his records and from there, look at the system. Then cos the system is omnipotent he could look beyond the dimension of time. And with his transcendence he remembered everything he saw. Not sure why he had to die to set things up for Villy. But I think he died, true soul returned to system, some shenanigans then happened but idk
Rewdan
Thanks Zogarth, I'm loving this conversation, I feel like a spy with an audio visual device.
Will of the Wisp
This has been my going theory for a very very very long time now. Cause we got the boots message… what like 200+ chapters ago?
Quintuscus
Zogarth I absolutely love your content and have been a patron for so long, however this didn’t really feel like even half a chapter. Please post some longer stuff if you’re able, cause this didn’t do it for me..
Lynderyn
I wonder if Jake is forbidden knowledge prior to integration.
Thomas Todd
The system knowledge stuff I think is a reflection on the knowledge being Jake's and so inside his domain. A bit like the transcendent authority the Wyrmgod mentioned when he fought Valdemar but obviously nowhere near that powerful, but it does mean Jake won't randomly lose memories due to the system. Although this is just a theory
Lynderyn
Bloodline + passive transcendence would be my bet. Probably tied to Villy’s partial omniscient skill that sagacity became.
Spencer Miller
Jake’s Bloodline seems to have a mostly uninvestigated aspect to it that involves System knowledge and/or Karma. In particular, his being invisible to the First Sage, his being improperly predicted Karmically in the tutorial, his ability to know at least some forbidden knowledge, and his capacity to always detect Eversmile.
Ben Heystek
You have to remember, that eversmile spoke of Jake being an anomaly from the get go. How Jake should of died fighting his first set of humans that night he started up his Bloodline.
Pickled Rick
The is definitely something paradoxical going on about karma and progression of time that Jake's bloodline screws with. I wonder if Jake's bloodline could ever cause problems for Eversmile as he both made a karmic connection and not made the connection yet going by all these origin things.
Spencer Miller
The Magical Mechanics involved here remind me a lot of a certain sequence in Attack on Titan. For spoiler reasons, I won’t go into detail.
Spencer Miller
This is a really good point. Villy got Partial Omniscience relatively recently, probably as an aspect of Sagacity, a skill based on and advised by the First Sage. If the First Sage has a True Omniscience skill, it would explain a LOT.
Kain
Also my pet theory “his first Transcendence allowed him to “remember” all possible futures he would ever experience” ate well this chapter I think. Imagine an, nearly, omniscient being just going through the motions orchestrating his desired preselected future and death having a wild Jake appear out of fuckin nowhere one day.
Spencer Miller
It’s possible if their Records don’t overlap. It’s supposed to be difficult with Bloodline holders because their Bloodlines tend to infuse virtually all of their Records. With enough insight or control over one’s own records, it should be doable.
Gavin
Or that's what his skill is in the first place or some variation of that scenario. He is a librarian pre-system. So I suspect it's something like that
Steven Tuttle
no its like he has access to th akashic records
BearHandMan
First Sage = King of Entanglement? When an observation is made he knows not only throughout space but time as well.
Charles Travasos
My theory is that both Vilas and the Sage share the bloodline of the immortal mind. Therefore when Vilas got the bloodline in the future it gave his memories to the Sage in the past. That is why he knows about current events. That theory doesn’t disclose why he doesn’t know who Jake is but I had a good feeling about it. Also makes sense with Vilas killing the first Sage so he could establish a connection through records for Vilas to gain his bloodline. Just a thought
Joseph Coonelly
Well, I don't think my thought of the first sage being the first of whatever variant human Jake is is holding up anymore. Thanks for the chapter!
Nate Slusher
I want about 20 chapters of this🤣🔥🔥🔥🔥
Arieh Sochaczevski
Thanks for the chapter! “No thank you. I would rather just sit here alone and wait. You go ahead and think about your things, and I’ll just twiddle my thumbs.”
JJB4345_80_815
So, my fanboy attempt at explaining that the First Sage knows most everything that Villy knows is this: "The Bloodline of the Immortal Mind" is truly immortal, just maybe not the being that holds the bloodline. By Villy killing the First Sage and having the Records absorbed by Villy allows some sort of retrograde feedback loop to seep back into the First Sage while he yet still draws breath. This might also be used to explain how all of the Primordials have Karmic threads tying back to the Boots via back seepage of shared Records/Bloodline accumulated later by Villy. Eh, it's a wild thought 🤔
Steven Tuttle
is jake about to get a transcendent skill or a way to talk to the sage for lessons
John A Lambeth
Oh I hope this will include some knowledge on how to help Vilas heal. TYFTC
Eiv
More and more questions. Haha
InfernoDroid
I think zag doesn't have a reason (yet maybe?) And doesn't find the how important to his story, only that it is a narrative device.
InfernoDroid
Reader: "So, what's up with the first sage" Zag: "beats me, he just does the thing, now shut up and move on"
JJB4345_80_815
Yes, thank you for the chappy Zogarth!
Blaq Jesus
I agree, however it could be because of any number of reasons
SmokeJam
Huh, so both bloodline and transcendence, that's highly unusual and without unique circumstances like Vilas thought to be impossible, according to him.
Blaq Jesus
That makes the most sense. You can't "teach" a transcendence in the first place. Jake will get his transcendence one day, but now isn't it. I'd bet on it.
Eric Haase
Tftc!
Blaq Jesus
I think it's too early for Jake to get a transcendence, but it may lead to it or something equally as good.
Tristan
I can honestly say I've been looking forward to meeting the first sage for so long and so many books. I've reread the entire series a dozen times already and I am not disappointed with how this is going. Thank you Zogarth it's wonderful.
Lay Nkay
Thank you for the chapter
Borbino the great
That’s what I was thinking
Borbino the great
I think a lot of why the first sage doesn’t know about him is because his bloodline represents the beginning meaning before the great sage the sage is aware of all the things that happen after he came into existence likely through a combination of his bloodline and atleast one transcendence I think him knowing his death comes into play there too with bending the rules to let him see through time because he has no way of directly benefiting from knowing so
Clint
Can’t wait to see what Jake learns. Will this “walk down memory lane” include the forbidden knowledge that FS and Villy remember about the transition to the System? Will it include knowledge about what the first era was like (before the System had trillions of years of learning to be sneaky) — things only the Primordials remember? Will Jake gain his first Transcendent skill? What would he even want one to do, that isn’t covered by his bloodline already??
Jana
Ok wild Theorie time. With his bloodline the First Sage would probably make for the best choice of librarian for an Akashic Library - maybe even an embodiment of Records itself since he would never forget. It would also make sense considering the way he speaks of his own actions- like he read a Book about his future self’s actions. If this is even half way true Jake’s “Book” not being there is very unsettling :-)
Borbino the great
Tbh I’d have the first sages babies
Kain
Possibly notably absent from his list of notable people connected to primordials - Sylphi so yeah my moneys on Jake Juice once again being the source of all fuckery here.
Clint
It’s not even clear that the energy thing is a transcendent skill. He could just be that good.
Beemoss
Tftc
Clint
Or use the same transcendent skill he used on Villy to help Jake make a new skill perfectly designed for him, like Sagacity was for Villy.
Andromeda Adams
Tyftc! This is a lot of fun! What benefits does the first sage have planed?
Robert Phipps Jr (Perren d'Wolff)
Part of me wants to stop reading, give it a few months for the chapters to build and bing, but another part eagerly waits each day while cursing it at the same time waiting for a new chapter.
C0bra$
Thank u for the story
AetherBoye
Yea either "divulge" or "devolve into talking about"
Justin Moen
First sage directly says, “you are the friend of my disciple” The trend of this chapter is the first sage himself noting and clarifying system stuff and record. I have this sneaking suspicion that his word choice heavily matters even in this simple statement. He clearly has insight of future events. But also made it clear that this time period in which they are meeting is truly when he was G grade…? Bcuz the system is “ALLOWING” them to meet like this, the system generated a unique environment for them to interact comprised of the first sage memories. He knows of all future events excluding Jake himself. Jake is an enigma and thus the sage has nothing but Jake’s word as truth (a new experience for him most likely and why he, like the viper, is enjoying Jake so much). So the sage confirming that he believes Jake to be villys friend and anything else added in chapters to come will have significant impact. He doesn’t mention sylphie or sandy or vesperia. Very notable names from Jake’s primeval origins… does he not know about them either?? What does the fact that the sage has near perfect knowledge of the future but a certain death day mean for his records? Is that how he “transcends” time? It can be deduced that the sage knew villys future and knew what villy needed to evolve into the person his is in present tense. But he knows nothing of Jake. What the sage gives Jake will be his first gift with the hope of it actually be useful/beneficial rather than knowing that person needs it
Shai182
TFTC! Yes, this is a Great interaction!
Ty Cooper
Tftc! Definitely not disappointed. Great chapter and looking forward to the rest of the week. I find it odd that Jake is forbidden knowledge for the Sage. The Sage is a mind boggling character and I'm loving it.
Sailesh Kumar Kumar
TFTC
Lucky Luke
👍
Vincent Schneider
That's actually a very fking funny thought hahaha it's like yeaaah you know I practiced my craft for aeons of time and here comes a long this little shit
BubblyGhost
Why would eversmile want to erase Jake? He's a purely unique existence, if anything ES is probably invested in just creepily watching Jake to see how his karma interacts with everyone
Was geht sie dass an
Was about to say the same!
Gavin
He's like an Akashic Record
Michael
Zog, I think a lot of us would probably be fine if you made this week only about the first sage
frankie doerr
He has 4 that villy knows of
Trugath
Devove is common with another turn of this phrase so it can get fixed in two ways.
Vincent Schneider
He's gonna get gifted a transcendent skill isn't he...
Tui Guy-Williams
He has multiple Transcendent skills. Villy doesn’t know how many. Only two have been seen so far. the first is the skill he used to help Vilas build sagacity. Which seems to help people manifest and adapt their soul space. But that was never directly stated. His other transcendence, is his ability to instantly change the state of energy. Turning mania instantly into stamina, stamina to vital energy....that sort of thing.
Mohammed Sheekh
Pretty sure jakes bloodline has a level of sentience and when jake reaches godhood, his bloodline will be similar to ciel from reincarnated as a slime
Justin Moen
The info bombs we are getting dumped!! I need more!! More more more!!! Tyftc! But seriously can we get a multiple chapter drop for Christmas??
Cory Sauls
TFTC!
Profile Name
Woulden’t matter with the imortal mind bloodline that the first sage has
Marc Jay Arr Cotamora
Need more!!!!
Sarianne Roodenburg
Really enjoying this encounter
Karim Saadi
This is so fucking interesting. I love this world and story.
brjenness
Jake gets erased by eversmirk in the future. Of course it's in some valiant attempt to save villy or someone. Also...thump...eversmile gets a bit of a surprise and is driven off to hide in his domain.
Thunder Common
I'm pretty sure his transcendence was the infinite library skill where we saw him teaching the malefic viper many many chapters ago.
Jake Thorpe
He has like min 5 of them so who's knows
LongMickeyRicky
Hes about to teach jake how to go super saiyan
Michael mann
“ Jake sighed. “I don’t want to devolve his personal issues,” I think devolve should be “Divulge” in this sentence
Andyr98
Wait is he gonna teach jake a transcendent
Zebramonkey
Tyftc
Darshar Griffonmane
I am so excited for this walk. Lore, Memories, and deep background of the world Zog has built is so awesome. tyftc!
Michael McMahon
I don’t want to devolve his personal issues -> divulge his personal issues. Loving the chapters Zog thank you!
Cameron Whitaker
Do we know his transcendence skill? Or are we about to find out?
Strlo
Wonder if the first sage might enlighten Jake on a way to make transcendent skills or improve his bloodine
Straat Junon
Tyfc
Paulo Furlaneto
Tftc
Jennifer Leigh
Surely, you must have heard the usual comparisons between the systems and natural laws? Are there more systems and the Sage knows? Or just an extra 's'?
Blackbriar
Hmmm...more good info on the System. Nice.
Brendan Bowen
Thanks for the Chapter
Loststar7
Thank you for another great chapter.
Alexis Cassaigne
Remember, First Sage! It was your only wish, to remember.
Nick Polomski
ooh im super excited to see the qualitative benefits from this, thanks for the chapter!
BlackRazaras
Thanks for the chapter
DarkclawWhitedragon
Tyftc!
BumAssBumAss
"I guess you balance things out with a healthy dose of heretic" -> "I guess you balance things out with a healthy dose of heresy" I think this sounds a little better
Fatkage
TYFTC
Connor
Thanks for the chapter
Farmingaround
Tyftc!
Michael Fannon
Yay
