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Impression: TOTAL WAR: WARHAMMER III Grand Cathay reveal
🕑 Added 2021-09-18 14:44:07 +0000 UTCAt long last, the Grand Cathay faction has finally been unveiled! Which means it's time for an impression post!
Overall impression
The developers at Games Workshop and Creative Assembly present us Grand Cathay, the "fantasy China" in the world of Warhammer Fantasy. The empire is ruled by older-than-Old-Ones Dragon Emperor and Moon Goddess, is said to be one of the most populous nations of the Old World, and comes with massive armies, elite crossbowmen, artillery pieces and war machines, yada yada. Let's cut to the chase: I dare say the design of the entire faction can be boiled down to "huge numbers", "infantry-focused", "defensive", "stand and shoot", and "dragon".
Pretty standard stuffs when it comes to designing a ”fantasy China“ faction. Not terribly inspired, but nothing wrong with playing it safe.
Aesthetic wise, Grand Cathay is basically a blend of heavily fantasized version of Tang, Song, and Ming Dynasty (none of them even remotely historically accurate), as well as architecture style loosely inspired by that of Southern China. The developers also seem to heavily referenced China's reenactment scene, especially that of Dong Xiaomi (冬小蜜). Unfortunately, reenactment is still a relatively new and niche hobby in China, so its historical authenticity is very much a work-in-progress (case in point: the headband is NOT historically accurate). All in all, the design of Grand Cathay still cannot hold a candle to more established factions like Empire and Bretonnia, and little better than Kislev, but at least it can pass off as "Chinese" convincingly enough, and frankly, still better than a lot of MMOs coming out of China.
By the way, since I wrote a suggestion/wishlist piece to hype up the faction months ago, I think now is a good time to revisit the old article and judge the merit of the revealed information base on it.
Yes please!
The strategist
Current Status: N/A, very slim chance of being added.
Instead we got two "magical sorts": Astromancer (basically Wizard of Azyr?) and Alchemist, and I don't think Grand Cathay will get another spellcaster or mundane strategist-type hero. A small consolation, but at least "Dragon-blooded Shugengan" mentioned in old Cathay lore seems to be retconned into the more sensible "Dragon-blooded Sorcerer".
(Updated 11th October 2021) Bad news, Dragon-blooded Shugengan is back.
Giant war drum/war drum array
Current Status: N/A, slim chance of being added.
If previous titles are any indication, there won't be any musician unit in the video game. Shame.
Multirole cavalry
Current Status: N/A, slim chance of being added.
I am actually very pessimistic about the prospect of multirole cavalry being added to Cathay faction. The developers seem to envision Grand Cathay as a defensive "stone wall" faction, that is "slow-moving and easy to flank" (in contrast, Kislev seems to be the "versatile" human faction with a lot of multirole units), so I don't expect them to give it a multirole cavalry. The few Cathay cavalry shown in the promotional art so far certainly don't inspire much confidence either.
(Updated 11th October 2021) "Conforming to Grand Cathay’s defensive nature, they are far hardier than other faction’s cavalry of a similar sort.". C'mon, I know Grand Cathay is a defensive faction, but surely they can't be tankier than full plate-wearing Knightly Orders of the Empire?
Wuxia
Current Status: N/A.
Wuxia is one of the nice-to-have, but isn't mandatory in a setting that revolves around large scale warfare.
Supernatural battle array
Current Status: N/A, very slim chance of being added.
Battle array is another nice-to-have, although more relevant to the setting than Wuxia. Not that I have any hope for a fringe idea like this to be included. Still, it is a missed opportunity, and I am going to whine about it just because.
Use with caution
Exotic animal/mount
Current Status: Confirmed. Dragons, winged Longma mounts and oxen pulling rocket bombard are spotted in the teaser/screenshot.
Can't say I am a fan of those big wings. From afar they are difficult to tell apart from other bat-winged creatures, and I actually mistaken them to be daemons (furies) when I first watch the teaser video. Also, please give the riders some saddles to sit on.
I also don't like the fact that there are legions of flying Longma riders in the teaser video. I put this part in the "use with caution" category in my previous article for a reason. Overusing mythical creatures can cause them to lose their mystique.
(Updated 11th October 2021) Got to be honest, the wingless Longma in the concept art looks really good, especially with armour on. Regrettably the wings still ruin it.
Staff-swinging magic monkey
Current Status: N/A, but high chance of being added eventually.
Panda
Current Status: N/A, slim chance of being added, which is good.
Shaolin warrior monk
Current Status: N/A, but high chance of being added at some point.
Xianxia Immortal/Swordsage
Current Status: N/A, slim chance of being added.
Like Wuxia, this is another nice-to-have that isn't mandatory.
Yin Yang and Wu Xing
Current Status: Confirmed as one of the unique magic lore of Grand Cathay.
Ah, the wonderful magic of ink bending. My only criticism is that it's difficult to make out the ink effect in the darkness of the night. Also I think it'd be cool if the ink can form into some recognizable symbols or characters, perhaps something similar to Akuma's Raging Demon?
So far so good if it is spellcaster-exclusive.
(Updated 11th October 2021) Unfortunately the concept of Yin and Yang has already crept into places it shouldn't be. According to a recent development blog post, Cathayan units are divided into Yin (ranged) and Yang (melee) aligned, and both will somehow receive leadership and other bonuses when within close proximity to a friendly unit of opposite alignment for no apparent reason.
Surprisingly, I am not completely against the idea. If properly explored/expanded, this may be one way to make the "supernatural battle array" in my wishlist work.
Terracotta warrior
Current Status: As of now, only giant statues known as "Terracotta Sentinels" are confirmed and shown.
For once the automaton actually looks good and fit with the aesthetics of the rest of the faction. I also like that Terracotta sentinels are being treated as rare secret weapon/triumph card instead of lowly rank and file, and hope that developers can keep it that way. Grand Cathay is "one of the most populous nations in the Old World" and has "legions to call upon when needed". It doesn't need another terracotta army to supplement its already massive numbers.
(Updated 11th October 2021) So Terracotta Sentinels are "remnants of an era long past", just like what I wanted. Nice. Very nice.
Chu Ko Nu
Current Status: Confirmed to be in the game in the form of "Dragon Crossbows" used by Celestial Dragon Crossbowmen.
(Updated 11th October 2021) Having normal and repeating crossbow coexist, and giving repeating crossbows to elite units (Celestial Dragon Crossbowmen, I personally prefer assassin-type unit, but this is fine too) to bum up their coolness factor, are EXACTLY what I wanted.
Avoid these
Japan
Current Status: "Dragon-blooded Shugengan" has unfortunately returned.
Dynasty kitchen sink
Current Status: The problem is already popping up on some polearm designs.
I can live with it if it's *only* some anachronistic polearms, but let's hope that it doesn't get any worse.
By the way, that dude leading the troops at the front is dressed so weirdly that I don't know what to make of it.
Overplay the spiritual and mysticism aspect
Current Status: So far so good.
Miao Ying sounded pretty hardcore in the teaser video, and I am glad that the more mythical elements of the lore, such as Dragon Emperor and his Moon waifu, are being relegated to background-only characters.
Random thoughts on other interesting bits
Sky lantern airships (Sky Lantern & Sky Junk)
I loved the idea and think this is definitely the highlight of the teaser video. However, the design of the airship is meh at best and utterly cringey at worst. I actually like that the developers opt for sky lantern balloons for Grand Cathay airships (instead of the ubiquitous steampunk dirigible balloons), unfortunately I can't look at them without being reminded of Chinese chamber pot.
By the way, ship's wheel is not something I expect to see on a Chinese-inspired fantasy sky lantern ship, as it was invented in Europe around 18th century. Not to mention a simple tiller is more than enough to steer a ship this small.
In my opinion, this is an example of uninformed designers simply throw together various elements they thought are "cool" while completely disregard logic, lore, and whether the end result makes any sense.
Ox-pulled rocket bombard
Another example of uninformed designers coming out with a design that makes zero sense. Why cast a heavy gun barrel, which necessitates the weapon to be pulled by beasts of burden, only to have it shoot rockets? Rockets are not exactly heavy and they don't burst gun barrel like cannonball. Also, what is the deal with that gun carriage? I thought gun carriage was designed that way so that it can be pulled by horses more easily. If so, what is the point of mounting another shaft at the front and not use the darn thing?
(Updated 11th October 2021) Actually Grand Cannon and Fire Rain Rocket are two different units sharing the same base model (with reskin). My criticisms still stand though.
Iron Hail Gunners
Possibly the Cathayan foot counterpart to Empire Grenade Outriders. I don't know why they are all females, but personally I am glad that Grand Cathay get to have more firearms than just primitive handgonnes.
(Updated 11th October 2021) Crane Gunners
Basically Jingal gun. An overall nice unit that fits very well with the "infantry-focused", "defensive", "stand and shoot" and "dragon" themes of Grand Cathay. I also like the name very much. Compared to other Cathayan gunpowder units like "Iron Hail" and "Fire Rain", Crane gun actually SOUNDS like something Chinese people would name a gun with.
Wu Xing War Compass
I have no idea what it is...perhaps it is the Cathayan-equivalent of Celestial Hurricanum?
(Updated 11th October 2021) Yes, it is the Celestial Hurricanum alright. I actually liked the idea of giant magical war compass, and the concept art looks pretty nice. Kudos.
Peasant Long Spearmen
I absolutely loath this. Enough of this "soldiers go to war dressed in peasant rags" stereotype already. When even Bretonnian Men-at-Arms get to dress better then these sorry lot, you know the design process has run into serious problems.
(Updated 11th October 2021) The developers are upfront about them being peasants, and Grand Cathay actually has a proper, non-elite army in the form of Jade Warriors. Good.
I still don't like the fact that peasants form the most numerous part of Cathayan roster though. Here's the thing: large, populous, centralised empires tend to have a much easier time maintaining proportionally larger standing armies compared to small, decentralised kingdoms (not the other way around), because centralised empires have extra resource to allow larger segment of their population to be economically unproductive, full-time professional soldiers, and administrative power to manage them. Peasants should supplement the main army, not form the backbone themselves (admittedly this is less of a problem for players, who can simply choose to not use them, but it will be a problem for AI-controlled Cathay faction).
(Updated 11th October 2021) Lord Magistrate
This dude quickly replaced peasant troops to become my most loathed unit. Not only he takes away the spot that could've been given to the Strategist, he looks like an overweight Janissary to boot.
Credit where credit is due, Lord Magistrate (經略使 in Chinese translation) was actually a real title/position in ancient China, and the concept of a scholarly guy leading the army is actually really good and totally fits with Grand Cathay, so kudos to the developers for actually doing their homework. But please, make him look less like a joke, let him wear a proper Mandarin robe.
Verdict
My first impression after watching the teaser is actually "eh, could be worse", which is to say, the teaser has some highlights and good stuffs, and even the bad parts are not as terrible as I feared. So far, it is a-okay. Let's wait and see what future reveals have in store for us.
Comments
GreatMingMilitary
I've seen that mod a couple days ago, great work! Any plan for further update?
Sarracenian
If you're interested, I've made a mod that tried to fix up some of the more egregious issues with Grand Cathay's art design https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2889737106
GreatMingMilitary
I've had my expectation tempered by worse games/designs, hahaha.
Angus MacDonald
Nice write-up, GMM. They do earn a facepalm on the rocket-gun carriage. I would have like to see the hundreds of small cannon (1- or 2-person teams) that were used in the Great Ming. Still, I think a-okay is a little generous (or perhaps resigned).
