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Gungrave is Beautifully Written Tragedy | Patreon Podcast

🕑 Added 2023-08-14 19:48:06 +0000 UTC

Comments

Kuma_Wamu

I had a similar social progression in school. I was an overweight nerd with an amputated leg. I used pure comedy to enter the hipster group. It was good for a while but I eventually resented being the comedian so I stopped making the effort. Most of the cool group lost interest, apart from 2 close friends that I’m still friends with 25 years later. You have so many interesting ideas that you articulate so well. Did you always have that talent or was it something you gradually learned?

The Electric Underground

Oh I am talking 100% about the anime storyline in this ep ha, as the ps2 game storyline is so much weaker lol. In fact the ps2 sections of the show are the worst part of it, compared to the anime original material. It's actually a great topic because the ps2 game is a great video game story, in that it has a strong premise and visual theme, but the anime is a great cinematic story because it has strong writing and pacing. But you can't really marry the two that well in a single medium. So I personally view the two properties as distinctive where a video game story is best served with a strong surface and premise, and then the real yummy character work is better explored in the anime. I'm not a big fan of the concept of story/gameplay integration. I think it is one of the worst ideas in game design in the past decade, but by damn do critics and developers really really want to push the concept. I like to sit down and watch gungrave and see the character development in a cinematic medium, whereas where I am playing gungrave, even if I think the story is interesting, I am skipping every cutscene. I actually only ever watch video game stories in youtube cutscene compilations ha.

The Electric Underground

Oh what a cool observation! Yes that is great symbolism and damn it I'm kind of shocked I missed it until you pointed it out. Yes, it fits in so nicely with Harry's quote about going to the top, god I love that show. I'm probably gonna do a proper vid on it here soon. And it is a shame it didn't catch on in the west, but I noticed that there is a pretty big taste divide between the anime I like, vs the typical youtuber anime sphere ha. Where i favor really tightly written thematic shows, and most anime fans (from what I've observed) want really heady philosophical deep thoughts type of stuff ha.

Elenddil

Loved this episode. The only thing I knew of Gungrave before having watched this was your review, so very curious juxtaposition of gameplay and Greek tragedy in my mind, now. Samurai Champloo is great, glad to see you also enjoyed it. I watch it every couple years along with Bebop.

Ushi Mushi

New Patreon here. Love your topics and perspective and wanted to support anyway I could! Loved the analysis on this topic; it's quite rare to see anyone talk about the Gungrave anime indeed. I'm not really sure why the show didn't quite catch on, at least in the west? It's definitely great, for a lot of the reasons you point out. One thing I liked in the show, unless I'm misremembering (been quite a few years since I last saw it -- Gore has me wanting to rewatch it, though) was that Brandon was shot while they were riding up the elevator to the top of Millennion. Intentional or not, a neat little symbol of Harry cutting their journey to the top together short. And a bit of a side note: whenever I'm playing anything with a score or rank with my fiance, I always tell her "We're going all the way to the top!". So I appreciate your emphasis on Harry constantly mentioning that, because those quotes will forever be played in my head haha.

Draino

I see what your saying. I think you need to take pop music on its own terms to appreciate it for sure. I think I definitely lack the context for it, as I am only really exposed to it in public places. One thing I think is interesting is that indie music on the bigger more famous indie labels has definitely sprung more towards a more crossover pop sound (a lot of which I'd say is very good). I think the zeitgeist of the time is that many musicians have reevaluated their feelings towards mainstream culture and pop music. There are still plenty of sick hardcore and metal bands for me to go see, so its good all around.

The Electric Underground

Yeah i think what's interesting about pop musicians is that they all tend to be lumped together with each other, though I think they all have vary widely different ranges in talent and appeal. Like for Britney, for example, she had a really strong start (as most pop artists do), but I'd say after the Oops I did it again era, she essentially ran out of steam as a performer (which makes sense, give all the stuff she was going through), and the brutal part of pop music is that it tends to be once an artists falls off the heights of their rise, it's really really hard for them to recover or return. I'm trying to even think of an example of an older pop star returning to relevance, and I honestly can't come up with one ha.

The Electric Underground

I think an interesting angle to consider with pop music, and what I find interesting about it, is to consider it's artistic merits in another view. So I def can appreciate the more musician/writing focused music, i listen to that plenty myself. However, what I think is being missed out on the conversation that I think is important to consider is to recognize the difference in goals, if that makes sense. The goal of pop music, like hit me baby one more time, is not to say something particularly interesting or unique, or even to be particularly musical either. Instead, the goal is to create sounds and writing that are widely appealing. This of course is the big critique of pop music, but at the same time if you want to critique pop music itself, you also have to understand the goal itself, otherwise you aren't going to have an accurate understanding of what is happening and why. Pop music aims to capture larger vibes and more vague emotions, rather than being particularly individual. It's a distinct but still fascinating form of art. I'll give you an example of what I mean, let's say I am going to critique and indie noise rock album. But I just critique is from the view of, noise rock isn't catchy so I don't think it's good, then my views and opinions on any given noise rock album aren't going to be very insightful. It would even be embarrassing for me as a critic to write reviews from such a limited perspective. This is how most people discuss pop. And so all the key decisions that separate "Hit Me Baby One More Time" (which is a very good pop song), from the current hit of the week are completely lost and for me rather than sounding above pop music, I think the merits of pop music just aren't being expressed or understood. Pop music and popular entertainment creates culture. And without that larger culture then the more individual art, the anti-culture stuff, has no context to even exist ha.

Taze Roiu

I had a Miley Cyrus episode a while back. I feel no shame. It was definitely an emotional perceived connection she having some relatability. I think it was after seeing her in a film where she fucked off her momager, and tried to get creative freedom. And a Rogan podcast. She has got an adorable voice too. I like anyone who sticks to the system. Britney is now retrospectively cool. I'd love it if she came out with something but mental damage is no joke. She needs me time.

Draino

Another good interesting episode. For me personally, I think blindly hating a band/pop artist/whatever for being corporate or mainstream is not that defensible of a criticism (although it is definitely my instinct!). For me a bigger issue is depth. Not trying to be reductive, but something like Skater Boy or Hit Me Baby One More Time (also what little KPOP I have heard), isn't really saying anything that interesting and the musicianship is produced to a degree that it saps a lot of character from the singers and instrumentalists. The desire to have wide appeal is also going to limit the amount of risks you can take musically, and as a listener I really value that. I don't doubt the talent of the performers and the producers, but talent is everywhere and for me it's more about the direction you take it in and what your goals as an artist are. I'm in my 30s and I see a lot of people just kind of giving up on exploring new artists, and sticking to pop music because it is right in front of them (not saying that you do that of course).

The Electric Underground

ha you never know, you may enjoy it :-) Def watch the show that I linked in the comments, it's probably her best performance

GPM

now Mark made me watch a Britney Spears show. why, Mark

The Electric Underground

I think that s part of it, but also I do have an interest in popular music generally which I do think gets underestimated because it s usually aiming to appeal on an emotional level rather than an intellectual one.

Taze Roiu

Ah so this explains the Britney fanboying U being someone who only got that mainstream culture feed. Poor bastards. Like fish in a barrel. Thankfully the Internet has liberated the small towns!!!

The Electric Underground

Lol that's great ha. I think it's a bit too comforting though to think that the only people at the top are sociopaths. They are in the mix for sure, no doubt about it, but I think decent well meaning people can rise to the top as well -- you just have to be prepared for a lot of grueling encounters with sociopaths ha.

The Electric Underground

Ha that would be pretty cool! I actually remember the Britney hit me baby one more time era. One interesting side topic about it, is that Spears really appealed to small town USA, because she was from a small town herself and was basically like the girl next door. So like a lot of poor girls would listen to her music and do her dances and stuff like that, vs being media aimed at the elite critical class. Mass entertainment is actually pretty interesting because all the hipster niche stuff that people tend to view as superior almost always depends on a more niche big city audience, whereas for rural america, the only media that can make it that far out is typically more mainstream. Like the story of Cobain wanting Nevermind at walmart, since that was the only place he could buy music growing up.

Taze Roiu

Cynical I'm sure, but I suggest there was some hypnotism involved in the Britney phenomena. Certainly not all bad Im sure too. I might go for some hypnotherapy. See if they can turn me into a supershmupper.

RiffMason

Gonna have to check out gungrave it sounds great, don't know if you've come across this essay but it looks at how climbing to the top on the ladder is represented in the American office, little bit of a curve ball but I think it'd be up your street. https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-the-office-according-to-the-office/