The Electric Underground
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Show Me Your Fun Zone! Doom the Dark Ages Discussion ft. Boghog! | Patreon Podcast
🕑 Added 2025-09-29 22:54:19 +0000 UTC
Hello Beautiful Patrons!
Boghog returns! Today he and I discuss "The Fun Zone" which is the design philosophy behind the new Doom games, especially Doom the Dark Ages. The intro section to this episode is fresh off the mic, but the majority of this recording is from a discussion that Bog and I had just right after I posted my review for the game. It's actually awesome timing because this discussion pretty much perfectly lines up with the Danger of Psychology-Based Design video I recently posted.
Dark Ages was an extremely challenging review because of just how chaotic its system design is and honestly its a shame it completely fell flat with its initial premise of being more like classic Doom with some Bullet-Hell elements. Instead it was captured by an obsession with player mechanics. And I think one reason for this Mechanical Darwinism effect is its commitment to the "Fun Zone" and perception based design. Which could have worked fine if the game had more counter balancing dynamics to its mechanics (other than more mechanics) that prevented it from being too static and procedural. I think the iframe shield bash particularly is a good warning against subverting spacing too much, even in a shooter.
This episode was recorded late at night and Bog and I had a lot of fun discussing "The Fun Zone" which is basically impossible not to joke about. Both of us appreciate the attempt Dark Ages is making to be a hardcore release, but the tone of this episode is two friends shooting from the hip after a midnight showing of a movie ha.
Thanks so much for the support everyone! The patreon is the backbone of what I do and I think these patreon podcast eps are a ton of fun :-D
Sincerely,
Mark
Comments
The Electric Underground
It's so sad to hear, he was one of my favorite developers and I loved his bold approach to game design.
The Electric Underground
It's such sad news :-(
Ellis Defesche
RIP Itagaki-san. What a legend
Obscura - A True Crime Podcast
Tomonobu Itagaki has passed away. RIP
Ushi Mushi
Harada and Murray thinking of the fun-zone when making 30 second combos. To me, though, fun-zone should not limit depth of a game. To stick to fighting games - T8 vs VF5. To establish and implement a good gameplan is probably 5 times harder, if not more, in Vf5. Which in a fighter that is typically where all dynamics come together and you're in the "fun zone". Tekken 8 is full of instant gratification and it sucks. But I think that's what most people want. Like if you can't hitconfirm in T8 no biggie really, can't do it in vf5 good luck getting out of beginner bracket. To illustrate another, with a game I know you're so fond of, shikigami and sisters, take a strong shot character hold shot and basically win - not super interesting or difficult for a vet. But the fun zone is its cohesion with the scoring mechanics. Once you learn to graze and play for score And look at routing and risk and reward, what this character can get away with vs that one, when to shoot when to summon. That's when the game gets great. But this type of depth is just lost on a lowest common denominator audience. Good concept, but as you say, I think naive, and just not good to apply or to appease to a general audience. It needs a really good vision and direction.
Taze Roiu
The fun zone as a subjective construct of challenge and reward within an interchangeable calculaic matrix of conversiveness ®️
