welcometonightvale
patreon
artistic feedback: what i think i know, to-date
🕑 Added 2025-02-25 02:14:45 +0000 UTCI’m no expert on feedback, but I think I’m getting a lot better from decades of doing this artist thing. And if you’re creative in any way (whether it’s your full-time job, an active part-time activity, or simply something you dabble in), you’re going to find yourself both giving and receiving feedback.
Here’s my current manifesto on receiving feedback (The Receiver):
limit asking for feedback from only artistic-minded people, those who are more likely to have some experience with feedback
avoid public feedback sessions (like talk-backs after staged readings in theater).
if you absolutely have to do it publicly, make sure you have a moderator you trust deeply.
no matter who you give your work to, communicate specifically what you want them to comment on (e.g. clarity, continuity, visuals, character growth, etc)
ask follow up questions, but do not explain your choices unless you are asked to explain your choices.
it is okay to ask if an element succeeded or failed, but again, be specific. Start with yes/no (e.g. was the reveal of the killer's identity satisfying?), and then follow that up with what went right in that scene/chapter/passage. you will be able to deduce what didn't work through omission.
save for your closest collaborators and colleagues (i.e. those people who know your work very very intimately), avoid negatively-framed questions. ask only for what worked. deduce what did not work.
above all else, it is the responsibility of the receiver to steer the feedback. do not tell the giver that they’re doing it wrong. simply ask a new question that will guide the giver back to the kind of feedback you need. that will guide them back to WHAT WORKS
And for giving feedback (The Giver):
find out from the receiver what medium to use for feedback (i.e. phone, zoom, email, text, in-person). In-person is, of course, the most thorough and intimate, while email/text can be fine for a few short positive thoughts. but i highly encourage oral feedback over written.
ask the receiver if they have any frameworks for feedback before you read/view their work. this will affect how you approach their art.
focus entirely your feedback on WHAT WORKS. what did you like? how did it make you feel? anything blow your mind? what stood out in the best ways?
if you focus heavily on WHAT WORKS, the receiver will know what to strive for, and they will deduce what DOES NOT WORK by asking follow up questions.
anything that DOES NOT WORK should only be offered by the giver in the form of a question, and that question should be as open ended as possible? (e.g. “Why do you, the writer, think their marriage fell apart?” “Why do you think the grizzled old cop stays in his job?” "Deep down, what does the priest really think about god?")
that being said, question-asking by the Giver is an advanced form of feedback. if your questions are too specific (e.g. “Don’t you think she should express her love differently here?”) then they’re really just thinly-veiled barbs. don't go too hard into questions.
Some exceptions to the above (The Giver):
always point out egregious continuity errors, but do so gently. (e.g. “I noticed on page 32, you say he took a cab to the city, but on page 60, he’s driving his own car home.”)
you might could point out typos/syntax errors, but do so judiciously. if you tell them about every missing comma, you’re going to exhaust everyone involved.
always point out harmful language/stereotypes/tropes. how you do this is delicately. start with how you felt when you read the passage. this will usually be enough for them to change it. but it might not. the important thing is you communicated it. it is the receiver’s choice to leave it in or change it. trust them to do the right thing.
Final thoughts for both parties:
feedback is emotionally, physically, and spiritually tiring for all. schedule a start and stop time for your session.
remember that only the artist is an authority on their work. the artist never needs to explain their work to any one but themselves.
ultimately, feedback is a one-way street from giver to receiver. it is a gift. it might not be the gift you, the receiver, wanted, but it IS a gift. take it home, and cherish it, ignore it, or throw it away. totally up to you, because you are the artist.
Okay, so that’s what I have so far on this document. I wanted to share it with y’all, bc many of you are also writers/artists. In the spirit of the topic here, I’d love to hear your thoughts on what YOU would include in your version of this list. (yes, i’m violating my earlier rules by opening this up to public feedback, but also this isn’t really an artistic project. it’s a bulleted list of suggested procedures.)
Also, let me know if anything above stands out to you in a good way. And what have your positive feedback experiences been like?
-jeffrey cranor
Comments
Allison Neely
I'm hoping to start my own writing group soon, so this is welcome advice. I want it to be a productive yet encouraging space. Thank y'all!
Cypress Wylde
This is a beautiful resource and one that I will be having to refer back to as I finally begin to open up my work for others' eyes. Thank you so much for sharing.
DragonbornCanid
oh yeah, absolutely agree! hadnt considered it from a moral perspective yet though, i always thought it was just odd and rude. don't we all want to improve on what we do? but I guess not. Thank you for the perspective though, really appreciate it! 🩷
Welcome to Night Vale
Joseph here. I also believe, on a moral level, that you do not get to argue with a person giving you feedback you have requested. They have taken the time to read the thing, think about it, and give you thoughts. As Jeffrey says, this is a gift. And it would be rude when given a gift to say "oh hey, I hate this". You absolutely can disregard notes. It is totally ok to privately decide "those thoughts sucked and I will ignore them." But it is not ok to argue with them or tell them they are wrong, because that is throwing their gift back in their face, which is rude.
DragonbornCanid
ahh i see! i hadnt considered that yet, but now I get it. I definitely am familiar with that defensive feeling when receiving feedback- tho I do consider myself good at gracefully accepting it when offered c: that was very helpful, thank you so much!
Welcome to Night Vale
such a simple, helpful technique. i haven't ever specifically used "put dinos in it" but constantly asking yourself why anything is happening is so important. -jc
Welcome to Night Vale
anyway, that's how i think about it. there's no correct way to do anything, let alone feedback. but hopefully my thoughts on the matter are helpful
Welcome to Night Vale
these are excellent questions! 1. You don't have to do any of this. These are simply my approaches to feedback. 2. The reason I recommend avoiding public feedback sessions is that they can get out of hand. Sometimes they are useful, but very often these sessions (especially online feedback) will devolve into nitpicking and negative critique. I've witnessed (and experienced) a lot of hurt feelings from these public sessions. 3. When receiving feedback, we tend to feel defensive, like we're hoping for a good grade in class. But there's no objective measure of what makes art successful. If you spend time explaining to the Giver why you made certain choices, you're really just screaming into the void. If the Giver had these questions, then maybe other people will have these questions. And that is an issue to think about on your own, to determine for yourself if you need to fix something in your writing.
Welcome to Night Vale
really excellent point. i was just thinking the other day about the people i will share prose with are different than the people i will share plays with. i have playwright friends who have seen every kind of theatrical draft i've written, but i never once handed them a draft of a novel. - jc
Welcome to Night Vale
I should add: This is a working document that i tweak and change over time. It's NOT prescriptive. It's simply a starting point for helping me explain how I like to give/receive feedback. -jc
DaniBiscuit
I find the 'put dinosaurs in it' method of feedback helpful sometimes too. The origin of the story is lost to time but the principle is that when you are stuck, ask someone who is utterly unfamiliar with your work for advice or direction. They may offer something very unhelpful like "did you try adding a dinosaur to this scene?" And in the explaining of "no, this is a period drama and I'd like Caroline to explore her feelings about Peter..." you end up having to distill and describe the context, purpose, and motivations of the moment which can do wonders for shining a light on what is needed
DragonbornCanid
not feedback, but just a question: im a little confused on the "why" in some of the "Receivers" points. Why should I, as the receiver, limit my feedback from other artistic minded people? Why should I not ask for public feedback sessions? Why should i not explain my choices unless asked? etc. Genuinely confused! I'd love to know if anyone can answer these for me, i'd really love to understand it better 🥰 (obligatory: English is my third language, maybe im missing stuff because of that)
Ollie of the Beholder
I would also add something like "ascertain the giver's level of familiarity with the type of work you are writing" in the Receiver section. I was in a writing workshop once where I was trying to get feedback on a novel I was working on. The guys in the workshop tore it to pieces...and then, the third time I came up to be workshopped, one of them finally admitted he didn't read fantasy. Turned out none of them did. I wasted six weeks thinking I was writing the world's worst sword-and-sorcery novel when it turned out I was sharing it with people who didn't understand how the genre works. Obviously not all genre tropes are good, but if you're writing a musical, you're not going to get helpful feedback from people who don't understand why everyone keeps breaking into song every time something emotional happens.
Catelia
This has really shifted the way I think about feedback, and I'll have to think on it more, but I have a strong feeling reading this will be super helpful for me, so thank you for sharing it
