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Ask Ian: Why No German WW2 50-Cal Machine Guns? (feat. Nick Moran) (ad-free)
🕑 Added 2022-09-20 12:00:05 +0000 UTCFrom Nathaniel on Patreon:
"Why didn't Germany or Axis powers have a machine gun similar to the American M2?"
Basically, because everyone faced the choice of a .50 caliber machine gun or 20mm (or larger) cannons for anti-aircraft use, and most people chose the cannons - including Germany. There were some .50 caliber machine guns adopted by Axis powers, most notably the Hotchkiss 1930, a magazine-fed 13.2mm gun that was used by both Italy and Japan (among others). However, the use of the .50 caliber M2 by the US was really a logistical holdover form the interwar period. The M2 remained in production because it was adopted by US Coastal Artillery as a water-cooled anti-aircraft gun, and commercial sales by Colt were slim but sufficient to keep the gun in development through the 20s and 30s. It was used as a main armament in early American armor, but obsolete in this role when the war broke out.
However, with the gun in production and no obvious domestic 20mm design, the US chose to simply make an astounding number of M2s and just dump them everywhere, from Jeeps to trucks to halftracks to tanks to self-propelled guns. And that's not considering the 75% of production that went to coaxial and aircraft versions...
Anyway, back to the question. The German choice for antiaircraft use was the 20mm and 37mm Flak systems, and not a ,50 MG on every tank turret. And so, there was really no motive to develop such a gun. The Soviets did choose to go the US route, though, and developed the DShK-38 for the same role as the US M2 - although it was made in only a tiny fraction of the quantity of the M2.
Thanks to Nick Moran (the Chieftain) for his assistance on this video! You can see the video he references about tanks being attacked by aircraft here:
And his full channel is here:
https://www.youtube.com/c/TheChieftainsHatch
Comments
Technical complaint, the 20mm cannon(or larger) fused projectile was for exploding on impact with the target, a time fuse wouldn't fit in a 20mm projectile and even if it would, it would be impossible to set the time on so many fuses. The VT fuse solved the latter problem, but was too big to fit on anything smaller than a 57mm and took up almost all the cavity space on that. There were explosive fused projectiles developed for foreign .50 caliber guns, but they usually had only very small amounts of explosives. Japan and I think Sweden developed fuseless HE ammunition that could carry a much larger HE payload, these were detonated by the crushing action on impacting a hard surface.
Manimal
Nick did a great job! So to put questions on a question; I read that the 2cm flak cartridge was belted, did that have any influence on belted magnums in the us? The platform was used in the ground attack role significantly.(as was the m2) Was there much difference in the versions for ground attack(pz2), anti-air(flak 38), or a combo such as the sdkfz 221 which could operate in either role? Is anyone still shooting these? How did the fuses work for the exploding projectiles(flak)?
Mark S
I once had a High Standard Ma Deuce receiver. I sent it off to Warner-Robins for overhaul (high round count and head spacing problems due to wear and tear) and they sent me back a Lockheed Martin receiver. I liked the High Standard and the Lockheed Martin kept giving me headaches with head spacing issues. Finally, they took the LM (Lockheed Martin) back and sent me my original High Standard (1943 manufacture). It was favorite training weapon until I retired.
Mark S
I was still using WWII ammo with WWII receiver frames on Ma Deuces in the 1990's at the Desert Warfare Training Center at Nellis AFB. I had ammo head stamped 1943-45 (and the occasional 1950-53). But the receivers were from Colt and a couple of other companies. They worked and they were effective.
Mark S
The 13mm Hotchkiss machinegun explains the gun that my Great Uncle said shot up several of their armored vehicles during Okinawa. It was rapid fire gun and damaged/destroyed several halftracks being used to move troops through a nasty piece of territory. They thought the Japanese were using captured American 50 calibers. They never identified the gun as it was destroyed by an artillery barrage.
Mark S
Love the background. I taught the Ma Deuce as an Air Force Combat Arms Instructor in the 80' and 90's. I never knew about the universal receiver development by Colt. I just knew about the original design and later mods for aircraft/ground usage. Great history on the Ma Deuce.
Matt Haught
I love David Fletcher's take on the M2 as a commander's copula gun on the Sherman and why the Brits generally didn't use it for such: "The British answer to attacking aeroplanes was to shut the lid, keep your head down and hope the plane flew away. The Americans would rather try and shoot it down, but that's typical..."
Edmond Griffith-Jones
OldSkool collab, love it
A two for one? It's value town.
ViejoLobo
Blumblumblumblumblum! Who needs a cannon anyway? Blumblumblumblumblum!
