Raising The Stakes (SPOILERS) An Opening Scene

Jessica Chubb

I think suicide is a very difficult thing to tackle well. I agree with nerd queen could the chaos not be that she is struggling to grieve leading her to the thoughts. And going through the 7 stage of grief you are helping her get through her loss and move on?

I like this concept a lot, but it obviously needs to be handled with care. My biggest problem is that I think the games stakes should be that you’re fighting to stop her from attempting at all. Maybe the opening shows her considering it, and in the game child Alice has to stop adult Alice and give her reasons to keep living? Still, I like the direction it’s going! Though, I’m a bit confused about child vs adult Alice. Is child Alice representative of Alice’s actual childhood self, or is she more of an abstract concept?

You can also have Diana save her at the end like she did in the other fire.

Love this idea because she would want to go back to the time her family died in the fire and wondering why she didn't die why she had to go thru all this pain she would want to die like she thinks she was supposed to all those years ago with her family she would think by going this way she would reunite her with her family this ending her loneliness Love it.

It's not that "explosive", more of a.. "Fish on land"-type thing; You've been playing (American) football your whole life, living and breathing it, it's all you know. Now you finally win the game and are thrust onto a soccer field, where everyone expects you to play along and play brilliantly, but nobody explains the rules or anything to you, but you HAVE to play.

Destiny Jenson

I definately like this version of the opening better! Though maybe my opinion is biased, lol. Thanks for the shout out American! 🙂

Stephanie Groth

This is a much more solid opening! I love it. Having the smoke and tentacles connected is brilliant!

RedBreloom

I don't have much to add but I appreciate how you explained it and pointed out how the struggle continues after you learn that you can live instead of just survive. I've heard this described as 'emotional backdraft' before. Backdraft being defined as: a phenomenon where fire that has consumed all available oxygen suddenly explodes when more oxygen is made available, typically because a door or window has been opened.

As a (far briefer) follow-up, our final battle in-game (perhaps even taking place in Alice’s apartment) could end with Shadow Alice defeated, unable to stand against the strength of Adult and Child who have faced their grief. Shadow Alice would have a monologue about how tired she is, how worn down, etc, and our now combined Alice (Adult+Child) offers the Shadow a shoulder to rest on, and then the two watch the sun rise over a London/Londerland that’s a bit brighter than it was yesterday, and then the ashes and butterflies swirl as she becomes one Alice. Our Alices have come together, the journey has reached a chapter break but the story continues, and we acknowledge that the Shadow is never truly defeated but is a part of Alice (and all of us). This suggested ending aside, there’s potential here for a powerful story that can move audiences in the way games like “Hellblade” and “Nier: Automata” have.

I really enjoyed hellblade it made me super unsettled at times (if not most of the time), with the rot it brought more to the game maybe (Going off the dying multiple times) would do a similar function. However instead of how the rot was within hellblade spreading sometimes whenever it wants, What if the smoke/chaos were to creep onto Alice. As you die the chaos creeps up more, covering her within wonderland (death would only make it crawl up though) and when it hits a point it consumes her and the player would have to do a specific restart (starting the level over). Another thing floating around in my head is, what if there was a difficulty called 'CHAOS' and within this, once you die with the chaos consuming alice you restart the game from the beginning to add more of a risk factor to a harder difficulty. The chaos could be subtle but you will still know its on her. Just a thought. I love this opening though I can picture it going through my head! Reading it gets me excited to see more thoughts! 💙 😊 💙

I'll try to keep this short and precise, but I already expect to fail, since the subject of this post is very dear to my heart (and my everyday life as it is now). I love your description of the opening scene and I love the themes. It's tough subject matter, but that doesn't mean we should shy away from it - on the contrary, perhaps. When you, like Alice, have lived a life full of trauma and extreme conditions, that's what you get used to and that's what you're good at. So when your final trauma is "overcome", you now have to live a normal life, doing completely ordinary, everyday things, for which you are totally unprepared, you have little to no experience with this, and in Alices case, you have to do it completely on your own. Spending your whole life surviving, doesn't dress you for just living, and in many cases it crushes your spirit. It's natural that Alice would feel completely lost and at odds with this world, because it's not the world she lived in for 20 years. I can see that leading down a dark path, were suicide feels like your only option, because you're just not fit for this world, you were never given the tools to deal with *this*. I can also see it leading to a self-destructive path, because in Chaos the world suddenly makes sense again, the confidence is back, because *this* is what you know how to deal with. I can imagine Shadow Alice being the spokes person for this path, coaxing Alice to give in to madness, to stop denying her true self. I really, really appreciate you taking on this angle, and I think it will resonate loudly with people who lived traumatic lives. There's so little focus on what comes after you've exorcised every demon and slayed every monster, and it is no less of an utterly depressing and at times soul crushing struggle, that makes you lose all confidence in yourself and your own capabilities. And I really dig the alternative take on game death! It makes it all more real, it feels like there's more at stake. Hellblade did this too, and they did it very well. They represented it as black rot growing from Senuas hand, and everytime you failed, the rot would spread and when it reached her head, she'd die. Sometimes, when you actually succeeded in defeating a boss, the rot would spread anyway, because that's the cruel reality of life.

Catheryn Alice North

yes, good, better ^_^

Hawk Owsley

Lots of comments on other pieces already, so I’ll leave most of it alone. One thing that struck me with the chess piece design is the mix of black and white on them. I like it, aesthetically, but shouldn’t they be just white OR black with the red intruding? Or very obviously one color with maybe very subtle accents of the opposing color, and then the red intruding? These look more like they have been patched together from broken pieces of more than one chess set, which could be a cool element in the story, but seems to need a reason for why they’re not just black or white with the red.

You could maybe use this cutscene idea and then after the first zone have adult Alice suddenly wake up before we enter the next zone of the game and put out the fire, after the strange dream of being in a circus, and realize that she needs to get in touch with her younger self somehow.

I always pictured death in AMA as either succumbing to madness or suicide, based off of the notes in the casebook. But that makes sense, given that she’s in the asylum, plus it’s an off-screen implication. In MR, I always pictured Alice’s deaths as her hallucinating and accidentally walking in front of a speeding carriage or drowning in the bay. Like the unused obituaries idea. I like the idea that adult Alice is suffering and something is missing, leading to a (maybe) suicide attempt, but I agree with the comments, it should be written a little differently. This is a big regression from the Alice who has grown in the past four years since her release from Rutledge. But not entirely out of character either.

Lucky Dragon ‘She.They’

It would be cool if Alice needed to align with the Chaos to defeat the Smoke. Chaos vs. Order with Chaos winning and that being the desired outcome.

Lucky Dragon ‘She.They’

So as an addendum to my previous comments, I know sorry, the smoke isn’t the Chaos. The tentacles are that, but the Smoke should represent doubt and could be related to Shadow Alice. Young Alice could think that the Smoke and the Chaos are the same issue but they are actually opposing forces. Because suicide isn’t chaos, it’s an attempt at control, i.e. order.

sldtr

I really like that fire / smoke becomes a big overarching villain. Considering it’s what took her family I think it’d be a cool way of tying it back in ultimately and having a cool full circle moment.

RedBreloom

Well, that kind of plays into the whole idea though, doesn't it? The smoke is chaos overwhelming Adult Alice beyond what is healthy and meaningful. The same chaos that catalyzes growth and urgency to Child Alice is simply an overwhelming, empty, but deadly threat to Adult Alice. And therein lies the danger. If the chaos grows to be too strong an influence for child Alice, then Adult Alice has nothing left to hang on for. The same fire that brings new life to a forest can still burn a neighborhood down if it's uncontained.

Lucky Dragon ‘She.They’

One more thing, (I know I write a lot of comments, sorry) it shouldn’t be the Chaos that would ultimately kill her. Chaos is the thing Alice needs to embrace. She’s been brought so low because everything in her life is now just the same stuff over an over. Alice is going to have to embrace the Chaos, just like the Queen of Hearts will, because as we know the two are always linked. By the end of the game we should realize Chaos, measured Chaos, was the good thing all along.

Love the horses mane! (forgot to comment on the pic, they look great) *edit for chess terms - the knights mane*

Lucky Dragon ‘She.They’

Yeah you can keep this opening for the most part, but she has to realize it’s a bad idea. So she tries one last thing before giving up on herself, and the thing she tries is what sets the game in motion.

I like the tie in with the smoke filling the room to bring the two worlds together. That also mellows it out from what some of the objections with the letter opener. The shadow spreading kind of gives me a Never Ending Story vibe but obviously different as it is not a black “nothing” but used to takeover the land and create the enemy. Something that could be done to help with some objections here could be as simple as a last minute change of mind. Alice sitting in a chair as the room fills with smoke, zoom in on face. Have a few images of Wonderland in its restored state showing her happy and in the light. Eyes shoot open and she jumps to her feet saying “no” while reaching for the flue to restore air, falls to ground. Something like that would also be a reason that child Alice is fighting. Knowing that adult Alice did not want to give up. Also, that would not stop a dark Alice from appearing because the thought are clearly there.

Lucky Dragon ‘She.They’

This I think could actually be a good way to tackle suicide and making such a game could even be a noble anti-suicide pro mental health message.

Lucky Dragon ‘She.They’

So really when it comes down to it, it’s not suicide being in the game I have a problem with. It how it is being used as a story point. Have it be something that is looming on the horizon for adult Alice, but don’t make it be the inciting incident that sets the rest of the game’s events in motion. That romanticizes the act. It can still be the outcome we are trying to avoid though, and that will still add the stakes. She doesn’t have to be literally in the process of dying to accomplish that. Have her trying one last thing to save herself and make it seem like it’s a longshot of a crazy plan. Let’s go back to adult Alice trying to get ahold of her child subconscious self. I like Greg’s spin though. When adult Alice sends down the Crystal Vorpal Blade she arms young Alice with everything she needs to save herself, but in doing so she also sends down her own doubts and depression which becomes Shadow Alice. Throughout the entire game Shadow Alice is trying to get regular or young Alice to fail or give up. Shadow Alice can be the personification of suicide itself and we will ultimately have to defeat it battle, probably as the final boss. This better frames suicide as the horrible thing it is.

Lucky Dragon ‘She.They’

I guess one of my problems with this is in fact the way it’s described it does frame suicide and an impetus for waking up and starting an introspective journey. That does romanticize it. The only way I can see to fix that aspect is have Alice contemplate suicide but never in the game actually go through with it. It can still loom on the horizon, but it’s not the attempted suicide that actually sets things in motion.

Apologies in advance for the length of this comment. Tackling suicide as a story element is fraught with danger from both a storytelling angle and from a public relations standpoint but given that the series has touched on trauma, sexual abuse, and other emotional issues I am not opposed to the idea of suicide as an integral part of the story if handled with the proper level of care and emotional honesty it deserves. Given that nobody here wants to mine this element for gross shock value, we have to make sure we avoid certain pitfalls though any artistic/metaphorical discussion of the matter will be open to bad faith interpretations and we can never make everyone happy with the game’s handling of the issue as it is different for everyone who has faced it. If the suicide attempt by “Adult” Alice starts the story off we have to make it clear as possible that its not being sold as “attempting suicide is a way to ‘wake up’ and start an introspective journey” and that any romanticizing (or the appearance thereof) is nipped in the bud. Granted we will always have to deal with those who equate the presentation of something with the approval of it, but this can definitely be reasonably negated with good writing, though it will be tough, and others have raised valid arguments on the matter that I don’t need to rehash here. Of concern to me is that while Alice dying by smoke inhalation (or slitting her wrists, etc) would make for a striking visual and a gut-punch to start the game, how does it end in a way that doesn’t look cheesy? Does “Child” Alice skip out of Wonderland and apply bandages or open the flue? I hope there’s a way that this can be done that it doesn’t look a bit trite. While I do like the opening visual of walking through London perhaps it could be Londerland, but a faded version of it, where the colors are dulled and everything is covered in the soot and grime of reality. Alice would go about her daily routine as described in the post, but as Alice passes out the letter opener slips from her hands, its is blindingly white, the only thing we see now as everything goes black, and it falls and hits the ground to the sound of shattering glass. Cut to “Child” Alice waking up in “Denial” and the earlier opening ideas of the meteoric fall of the Vorpal Blade entering the Wonderglobe. The confrontation of grief happens through our journey in the game, and at the end “Child” Alice comes face to face with her “Adult” self, and the “Adult” drops the letter opener in surprise (creating a bit of an ontological time paradox) and reunification happens. In short, we have the threat of suicide/finality still, without any grisly visual of it, a resolution that doesn’t look weird, and Alice still saving herself. Yet perhaps some would think this to be a “fake out” that makes it look like suicide is being used for shock value alone? Given this looming threat, I wonder if the oft-discussed “Shadow” Alice has a place in this new framing of the narrative, as she wouldn’t work as the misinterpreted “Adult” reaching out to help since she has given up. Perhaps instead she is a manifestation of entropy, of Death itself, trying to prevent the “Child” from facing her grief and moving forward. I would suggest, though this will be a fine line to tread, that if “Shadow” Alice is the personification in the snowglobe of Death, that she should attempt to “seduce” “Child” Alice to her way of thinking and make surrender seem like the best choice but the story will show her promises to be empty ash-filled lies. Its a risky line to try, but I think that pretending suicide doesn’t offer the appearance of a promising solution would be disingenuous; it obviously looks like a good answer at the time to those who try it, but perhaps through “Shadow” Alice and “Child” Alice and their interactions the story can explain why it isn’t. Perhaps “Shadow” Alice could be tied in to the “Tower” arcana: a thing of absolute calamity, yet also a weak structure. Given the timeframe the story would have to cover (ie, “Child” Alice has to succeed in the desperate few minutes before “Adult” Alice dies) there’s also the consideration that it might seem like the game is saying “you can get over your trauma in the blink of an eye” and trivializes how one faces grief. Perhaps we hint that “Child” Alice’s journey has been happening parallel to the timeframe of the other games and events from “AMA” and “AMR” might echo into the snowglobe to show the passage of time? In essence, though Alice never really confronted and dealt with her grief in the games we already played, part of her was working on it the whole time but we didn’t see it till now. The resolution itself will also be perilous, as no one talk with one’s child self will end the danger of suicidal thoughts which can linger with the traumatized forever, so perhaps its to get us to a soft-spoken ending where “Child” and “Adult” Alice will watch out for each other, each giving the other a reason to continue on? Constant vigilance to keep themselves going and some color returns to the world? Perhaps saving herself and facing her grief gives her a new drive to help others and sets up “Otherlands”, or just does enough to see there are things worth continuing for? Maybe our scene fades into an even further future where “Adult” Alice is older still and the “Child” is replaced with her own child? Can we give our heroine a happy ending that says that though the pain may always linger there’s enough happiness to be found that you should continue on? What does that look like for Alice? In the end, and as summation of this novella, I think that tackling suicide within the context of the “Alice” series is very in following with its history of looking at trauma through the metaphorical lens of Wonderland. No topic should be considered taboo for art that seeks to elicit a reaction, and in the case of trauma and suffering, we cannot pretend suicide is not an unfortunate part of those things. Perhaps how this story may handle suicide will not reflect every person’s experience with it, but that is simply impossible. I’ve seen that this series has spoken to a lot of people who have suffered their own traumas and I think that if “Asylum” can speak to even one person who would see their desperation in Alice stepping back from the edge and take the step back themselves, then its a story damn well worth telling.

American, this hurts my soul. I agree with Lucky Dragon that this is kinda making Adult Alice into a damsel in distress, which is completely opposite of what she’s represented in the past two games. I, coming from someone with depression and mental illness, understand where Alice may feel like death is the only option. But after all she’s been through, I feel like she’d feel obligated to live on and try to heal from her past, rather than just end her life.

Lucky Dragon ‘She.They’

Plus if her attempted suicide is ultimately the impetus for her eventual redemption, it kind of frames the attempted suicide as a good thing. The implication would be that none of the stuff in the game would happen, and she wouldn’t have been saved if she hadn’t done it. That’s a poisonous implication and sends a potentially dangerous message.

Death of Ink

Like the idea of the chess pieces here.

Lucky Dragon ‘She.They’

I guess I like this ‘better’, but I still don’t like that adult Alice seemingly has no agency in this. It’s her subconscious trying to save her yes, but I liked it better when adult Alice was actively trying to communicate with her younger self. Now she’s ostensibly a damsel in distress. And if we the player fail, we are indirectly responsible for her successful suicide? It puts us in a very icky position. I would be okay with Alice contemplating suicide, but decides against it and tries one last ditch effort to fix herself by sending the Crystal Vorpal blade into her subconscious. I felt like all that stuff was much stronger and more interesting.