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Chapter 450

🕑 Added 2025-08-29 18:59:12 +0000 UTC

Comments

Chimera80

I can see why people might be frustrated about the outcome, especially given that only one chapter ago they drove off a T33 team without even straining. But keep in mind that MAL and L&S are in and of themselves proof that Tier isn’t everything. They’re facing *anti-Ascender* Elite *teams* here. The groups that Great Powers put together to counter Ascenders when they don’t have any themselves, *at Tier parity*. Now, normally the *successful* outcome for these groups is “mostly dead, but Ascender forced into years-long healing cooldown”. But there are a couple points to note: - don’t use Waters as any sort of benchmark. He’s a data outlier -the teams are intended to operate at Tier parity, so a two-Tier advantage is MAJOR - the Ascender team, while defeated, was NOT into major healing cooldown. Susan only lost *one* leg - Ascender teams no longer have their super fancy war gear. Neither do their opponents, but they ARE shown using *extremely* expensive consumables (the shield crackers). They are clearly motivated and significantly invested in this specific fight. - team Ascender were NOT going full lethal, as they were accepting surrenders etc. I don’t think there’s any way Mantis could have emphasised more that these are not ordinary foes: they’re trained and equipped for this particular matchup, they have anime-protagonist levels of motivation, they have numbers (who are rigorously trained to work as a team, so they can USE those numbers), and they have a multiple-Tier advantage.

Chimera80

Time for Matt and company to start using poisons too? Since literally everyone else seems to be. Also, considering their opponents’ clear and present lethal intent, why are they accepting surrenders?

BladeTytan

Matt’s Physical Cultivation is nowhere near that much greater. He’s got 100% Physical Cultivation per Tier, but a warrior +1 Tier on him functionally has 140% Physical compared to his (70% split *2 from Tiering up/Matt’s 100%/2 vs their 70%). A +2 Tier difference just gets even bigger.

Julie Smith

Yes, that was a disappointing fight, in the sense they didn't use their full powers. I wanted Matt to use his merged image during the fight and he didn't. I don't think Liz used her full raft of blood powers either. On the other hand, it was satisfying to see them get their butts kicked by two level higher Ascenders. It's good for them and for us as readers, to have our heroes fail sometimes.

Dani

It feels like Matt is getting nerfed pretty hard. No use of his concept repulsion, barely any intent usage, no AoE attacks like the flame breath. Frankly it feels weird that he’s getting tied down by peak elites. With his ridiculous growth talent he should be able to negate a mere 2 tier difference. Yeah, tier difference gets bigger, but his talent grows exponentially and his advantage in physical cultivation should by now also be enough to outmuscle higher tiers with his boosts. It just doesn’t add up. Liz also performed underwhelmingly. Only a few clones here and there and suddenly she is dead. Allie spent the whole arc pumping NT and realm rewards into her teleportation only to fail the very first teleport she does. Zack was …afk for the second half? Only Aster still kicks ass.

Hamish Poole

It's such hard work for Mantis. So many plot holes on the character sheet like Matt's void claws to fill.

Adamas Shield

oh and she also let some very interesting path for their T50 if he needs to take a (weird) turn for some reason.

Adamas Shield

Titan continues to be such a beast in a fight :D I sure more than of those elites will have nightmare from recalling their experience, and he not the biohazard that also Immortal Phoenix. Also kek about the rogue Ascender continue to show you ALWAYS need to know were they are. Looting like that is bullshit :D

Miss O.P.

Maybe I missed a chapter but I really don't get what that team was after. It was super weird. The one thing I do like is the crystal inscription spells I forgot what they call it in cultivation books in a formation was interesting. Like emote mines. I like when old spells and old loot is actually used and looked at and is useful. I really like where it is going. Luna is one of my favorite characters because she reminds me of Edna Mode from The Incredibles. But the problem is all the basic stuff you'd expect was never there. The looting, the using the stuff you find. It was like fast forward mentor montage. And they weren't even properly looting rifts even though they had those rift robots. It would be like watching Star Trek and them not contacting the planets and just hitting the gas through the universe. I love any time Luna shows up after this whole mentor thing when she's giving her two cents or doing some random training. And hopefully from now on they actually really explore those rifts and realms. Oh and as for them losing. I thought of it as an army of elites vs 4 and Rah and Susan. I feel like the reason why lost had more to do with them exploring with a team that's incomplete without a healer then them actually real losing. It's like party dynamics. If they had 1 more tank, (elite, a healer, and 1 more range. They could have wipe the small army)

Bailey Tucker

I don't know if you caught it, but there was obviously some underlying drama with Remi that is going to come up later. The fight showed off the differences all of their gains have made, and there is yet another something fishy going on behind the scenes; Elites from disparate Great Powers are teaming up against the Ascenders in what is obviously something personal.

Sangui

Thanks for the chapter, but I think this is one of the worst scripted battles you've ever written. So much of it doesn't make any sense. They've been there for a decade, and they were planning to be there for 50 years, and the only had one set of defenses around their stronghold? They had nothing in orbit? Why didn't Liz go General mode? Ok, she doesn't like being 150 people all the time, that's fine. But this is absolutely a situation where there should have been maximum Lizzes. Why weren't there big ass formations that Rah and Matt and Zach had created to do something beyond be a single shield. Also, why does this chapter even exist? We could have just skipped straight to the debrief chapter since this had 0 stakes. Nobody was going to die, they've already secured their loot. They're fighting over nothing cuz somebody else has a problem.

Mario Morales

My question is what is the fix to this? Does he need higher level skills or is ther something else that will fix it? Is it just his control or is there some structural issue with his skills/spells?

Sean Shivers

The ones aster nabbed? My read was that they didnt have time. If theyd left with them the ships would have gotten involved. If theyd tried to do it there the ships would hafe gotten involved AND the baddies would have jumped them... though if they ran and weren't followed they would have known that it was about the world rather than about them specifically.

Sean Shivers

I mean, he's definitely going to double ascend or die trying. If he was the type to slow down he never would have made it to 25. And his crush on allie only helps. But like, Ascender pace is kinda unhinged... so... he might get sidelined if they pull to far ahead.

kaylam wilson

This is the exact conversation MLA had with Lila during the T10 tournament

Evernap

I hope Rah isn't sidelined. Hopefully his story progresses to an attempt at a double ascension instead of slowing down.

Addie

I'm fairly certain Patricia's Pincushions were mentioned or encountered during the war. It's very familiar.

Kevin Fowler

The constant nerfing of Matt is pretty annoying. If you want an OP power you have to be willing to use it or is just pointless. He's putting out more mana then t40s every single second. No one close to their tiers should be able to survive that no matter how much you shoehorn mana concentration or control. Quantity 10 tiers above just flag out beats quality.

R. Maxwell Steele

Definitely should have interrogated the captured enemies. Because they are obviously missing something important.

Derze

it was a good fight though

Ethanos

I notice a lot of people talking about it being weird that they lost but to me it kind of makes sense. These high level elites have to be spending significant time studying the ascenders every move and style while there are too many elites to return the favor towards. Also while rapidly advancing for the first time in their lives the ascenders have spent more time on other interests instead of solely consolidating power. Not that they aren’t strong or don’t have things that are pending that will be insane but the key to ascenders as far as I can tell isn’t that they win every fight, but when push comes to shove and everything is on the line they find the ability to push farther and do the impossible. Clearly this fight meant something to the foreign groups, but other than some pride and a picked over planet this was nothing to Matt and the crew.

Nathan

Are MAL / Z+A true Ascenders? They seem so much weaker than the other ones. Max killed another Ascender, Goldenrod can fight up multiple tiers in T40s and win against other elites, and obviously Aidan. From what we know, it seems like 5 Ascenders would easily win against 2 pinnacle elites and a bunch of other lower elites even with a two tier advantage. Are they just closer to actual pinnacle elites rather than Ascenders? It’s a little disappointing that the main characters are the bottom of the barrel Ascenders.

Jonathan Jelsma

I like how Matt appears to be getting diminishing returns with his mana. His spells not being able to handle his throughput is a nice touch. I hope they find a realm where they are able to modify skills.

Strato Junon

100% feel the same way. PvP (for lack of a better word) has completely lost my interest in this series. I still enjoy everything else though. I also don't get why one side is willing to kill yet the other side is holding back. When punching up in tier even. Just feels really odd. Edit: I think the main reason I don't like PvP is because it often involves so many characters. And there hasn't been any drama or personal stakes since.... I don't even know. (Oh that baron guy who kept that one guy as a talent slave)

Tyler Thompson

I think, after following this story from chapter 1, this is the end for me. These chapters just aren't interesting any more. Fights are just slogs and power levels mean nothing any more. This just felt contrived to make the ascenders lose as a "look they're not all powerful!" when they should be. Matt shouldn't be losing to anything but absolutely overwhelming odds or other ascenders.

Kuniku778

This is definitely a set up to something, but its never been as forced before. Though if they attacked as hard as was written why didn't matt throw a few siege spells out. Though i call bull on everyone surviving that shatter. They were IN the spell, no way everyone survived.

Matthew Smith

Honestly fuck not killing people. Blood for blood. This dude comes in all high and mighty, who is not only attacking down but also needs a bunch of help to even match them. Nope kill them all from the weakest meat shield to Remi and Patricia. I hope they get to massacre them and have a nice repeat of what happened to the chick who got the void claws through her skull.

C_Mantis

I knew there had to be at least one person who also likes eu4!

C_Mantis

It was when Allie teleported them around and they killed a lot of pinnacle elites.

Jason Hatter

What was the Night of Long Shadows? I'm blanking on it.

Spencer Jefferson

Just wanted to say that I find it fun when two different parts of my world collide. I loved the sponsorship and can't wait until Thursday. Thanks for the chapter BTW.

Patrick

The only thing that sounds like a remote possibility is they thought the storage on the ship was filled to the brim. Then if they captured anyone, they could force payment right then and there. Taking the captured person back to civilized space wouldn’t work b/c the punching down would invite execution instead of reward.

Patrick

I don’t even understand what started the fight. It is established thru widespread communications that the Ascenders have been there for 9 years. The planet is picked clean. Why would a bunch of T31 punch down vs ascender level T29 for no reward? This level difference indicates there isn’t really bragging rights or for reputation. If anything, the fight is recorded since they escaped fully intact, and might be executed by higher tiers for this. What happens in chaos space stays in chaos space only applies if you somehow have such a resounding victory that the opponents spaceship cannot leave.

Austin Gillespie

I think too some of it is our view is also warped by ascender bias. They all see fights and enemies so much differently from the other quintillion people in the Empire, that maybe that is where some of the lines get blurred.

Austin Gillespie

I know I saw at least one other comment about this, and I feel like I remember seeing similar stuff on the war chapters, but it does get a little tough to gauge power levels during these type of fights. Especially when you have say Matt throwing around spells getting comparable to a death star laser in power. I think some of it is while knowing these are elite fighters tells us that they will fight competently and would overpower most other people, but when they die as easily as any other grunt, it takes a bit of that away, makes them seem less. It almost makes me wish we had side characters we could more easily compare them to, like how Susanne is a “pinnacle” elite, I wonder if the terminology would feel a little less weird if we could see “yeah these elites are just as good as our buddy Joe”. Something a little more quantifiable? Idk, just my thoughts in case it helps, very good chapter!

kaylam wilson

Think of this team like they are fighting at tier 34. pinnacle elites can normally fight 3 maybe 4 tiers up (ish)

Caleb

im struggling to understand the power scaling. for the last 100 chapters it has felt like our team can punch up 4-5 tiers no problem, or with minor exertion. I think maybe some extra words should go into explaining why this 2 tier case is different. maybe im just forgetting all of the intricacies that come in between the different flavors of "elite" but I think at this point it might be worth some explaining in the chapter so the loss doesnt feel as out of place? I do think its good to see the team lose, it maintains a feeling of stakes, otherwise we might as well skip to tier 50 and watch the ascensions. There's gotta be risk of failure, I just didnt expect it with a 2 tier gap.

Jason Hardman

Sorry, but this was a bad chapter. They're meant to be more powerful than that, but they got defeated. The power scales aren't lining up to what has been shown before. Also you're missing a start to this sentence: So many people removed, Matt was able to see a Liz falling apart -> With so many...

Xepen

Yeah no. Idk I’m trying to believe it, the elites beating them, the whole “no one fights up more than a tier above 25” and the like but it’s hard when we know Matt is so busted, let alone the rest of the ascenders.

dontputmeonyourlist

its good to see them lose. a mc that literaly cant lose a fight gets boring. i think there must have been something really big on the line for them to fight that hard and barely chase them off and be so happy about it. and they are going to find a fully looted planet with no first delves left and no strange realms.

Kasamuri

Thanks for the chapter!

Tyler Blanchette-Witiuk

I don't think it was bragging rights more then 2 tiers up is not that good at all

Raymond Lenihan

I don't get why after going back to the unsparing and healing they couldn't pop back in to keep fighting, they didn't surrender. Any battle of attrition has to go to Matt and his pals. I do wonder how the other teams they fight never ever run out of mana.

Trey

Using this storage crystal as a device for Matt to be able to constantly practice his control is great and gives his training a payoff besides just the fact that his control is better so narratively i like that the study of it is pulling off two things. Also brings in that crafting focus he had when he was Quill, which I love!

Ethanos

Great chapter! Raising the stakes!

Michael Ferguson

Labor day! Have a good weekend everyone!

Cteatus

Very cool fight. Always fun to see the Ascenders when they get cornered. But I am a little annoyed by the Corpos. How come we never see them on the side of the Empire? I suppose the Empire has less funds available to maybe hire them with, but even still they always seem to be backing up the Republic, or the Sects, or the Feds. It makes sense that the Ascenders woudn't care about hiring them, but you'd think we'd see some of 'em hired by other Empire institutions occasionally. But they only ever seem to be hired by antagonists (outside of explicitly neutral locations like Minkalla) or antagonists themselves.

Olof Karlsson

Thanks for the chapter!

Vastenova

Thanks for the chapter! Hope you have fun at dragon con!

Trey

This is a great guess, I hope you’re right! Chaotic space is a great area to sow, well, chaos, so it makes sense for the cabal to take this as the opportunity it is to hurt them more.

C_Mantis

I will try to make note and see what I can do to reduce or at least not increase such things.

Michael Ferguson

Thanks for the chapter!

Matt H

While the chapter was interesting, I'd argue that the words "peak", "pinnacle", and especially "elite" get vastly overused to the point of losing a good portion of their meaning. It doesn't really feel like their enemies (outside of maybe Remi and Patricia) are "elite" in any way if when one gets knocked out of the fight two more are immediately ready to step in to take their place. If anything, it feels like "elite" simply means that someone is or was in the army and not anything more than that which is... odd. I'm not sure if anything can really be done at this point since the terminology about power levels is pretty well established, but I had forgotten how awkward it all sounds (i.e. low level elite, mid level elite, high level elite, peak elite, pinnacle elite, etc.). And that's before all the additional qualifiers about where in a given tier a person is that we're going to have to start dealing with in the future. We might start seeing phrases like "the lesser advanced, peak elites managed to survive Matt's attack, but the greater advanced, low level elites had to flee" once everyone is T40+

Jakob

Heh. Remi Wolf.

Sean McClain

Aiden is a terrifying monster even amoung ascended. That said, I dont think the ascenders were fighting at their top level you would get in a life or death battle. Matt only used his most game changing (currently) skill, his meld, to help escape. It would be devastating if use to attack at the right time. Also Matt's equipment was his tier 28 stuff. I think similar could be said about the others. Even then hudrends of elites and many peak elites still took everything to cause them to retreat from an basically empty world. Could Aiden have just drown everyone except the two named peak elites? Yes, but he had his Aspect at tier 30, insane. I do expect Matt and Co will get a power boost in the near future.

alex bozdog

And then there's Waters winning 1v2 3 tiers down against Ascenders

nolan saylor

Thanks Mantis! Thanks Dae! Allie having their fun. And probably getting some willpower from the prank as well. Required to have fun. I do look forward to Matt doing the an Ascender thing and making something interesting from playing with mana crystals. Can probably also use the weird mana storage stones as an encryption. If each item in it changes the pattern it could be interesting. I am happy we get to see a group of Elites as a group instead of only solitary figures. Sure Ascenders would be more allowed to stick together, but it felt weird to not see any groups except as Ascenders or delving groups. I do enjoy the lore... mostly of Patricia's Pincushions. I wonder if they will get to encounter other Ascenders. I don't recall any Ascenders at the T30 range, most were out of the war or hanging out at T35.... I think I wonder if the rage is a hint that this is a team pretending to be the Corporations and Remi? Seems unlikely given their strength. I wonder what the answer will eventually be... or is it just something we'll never know. Sound based move, both a buff and debuff, fun to see. It said Domain assisted, but I am not sure if that refers to the howl or the effect. Using sound as a medium for the domain effect is interesting. But the howl could be the domain, maybe even voice as the Anchor, and the effects could be from a skill or bloodline ability. I wonder if Matt & co can take the darts that were used on their bunker. Battlefield scavenging. I do like the showing that Pinnacles can be exceptional at many other things, not only hyper-focused on their specialty. Huh, interesting gourd. Lucky they had it, or was it prepared for Liz specifically once they knew she was here or possibly by one of their GPs? Single usages of NTs. Oof. Self reproducing toxins sound interesting. Like a cancer where it produces more of itself, just needing the marrow that normally produces blood. Remi embodying the Alien/ a moray and having a second jaw. I think Remi just rammed into Matt... but Matt made sure Remi also rammed into Matt's sword, though I'd assume Matt angled for that. Or maybe Matt stabbed Remi as both went through the wall. I just know of several films where a person gets themselves stabbed by running forward, spoke I hope for that. I wonder if the goal was just a victory over the Ascenders. The only time it happened in the war was when the Harmony ship with a whole host of Pinnacles worked together, and even that failed. I wonder if it was a matter of pride. Well, that was fun.

Justus Halbach

I love the priority being improvement. What a way to end the chapter. Thanks!

Rhaid

Man, my perception of an ascender's strength is kind of skewed because of Aiden. Aiden being so strong and fighting up 5 tiers makes Matt, Liz, Allie, and Zack seem much weaker. I know it was Susanne and Rah tapping out that stopped the fight, and that this doesn't really change anything, but I never know how to rate anyones strength.

Tom C

Those elites. I mean, winning a world is great but if they think they haven’t been marked by a bunch of ascenders…. What the hell? Then again nothing like a nemesis to drive growth. Maybe they want to have that pressure! TFTC!

Celas

Nope delayed comments

Alex

My guess is that the Cabal have manipulated foreign elites into targeting MAL while they're in chaotic space.

SCDarkSoul

Damn, actually losing a fight for once in a long time. But I guess a two tier disadvantage against Pinnacles and Peaks is pretty reasonable for a loss.

Alex

Yeah, I don't really get the part about them saying they'd try to ransom the Ascenders off to Manny - I'm pretty sure his response would be to slaughter them all for punching down. I don’t see how they could justify what they did since the world was below their Tier too. I know the punching down rules don't really apply in chaotic space, but I thought that was in a "we can't punish people when there aren't any witnesses left to accuse them" type of thing. Nobody on The Unsparing died, and they have [AI] recordings showing that the enemy teams broke the rules.

William Howe

First comment? Weird. I guess everybody is at DragonCon.

Celas

I'm probably missing something but I'm pretty sure Remi and Co royally messed up. Unilaterally initiating combat while attacking down. On a lower tier world. It might be in chaotic space but they were T31 on a T30 world attacking people averaging T29

fruit dragon

I really don't think so. I think it's just bragging rights

MinE

I’m guessing something on that planet was extremely valuable.

ElJako98

Enjoy dragon con! I got a bunch of friends going but I won't be able to make it.


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