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Antikythera Fragment #8 - Layout Line Visibility

🕑 Added 2019-01-08 08:07:59 +0000 UTC

Comments

Clickspring

Yeah I gotta say that one kinda creeped me out a little bit when sped up :)

Duncan Luddite

The time lapse of the egg yolk and Woad in the petrie dish, while the painted brass slab dried, was very interesting with a pulsing, surging action. I would expect this sort of reaction if the time lapse went over several days with the pulsing corresponding to the differences in day/night temperatures and effecting the evaporation rate, but it was only over a period of minutes! Curious.

Clickspring

Hello Damien - Its possible, but I wouldn't say that the mechanism supports that idea, as the machine dates to well past the Greek Bronze Age (the wreck dates to approx 100 BC). There is some fragmentary evidence from the early Roman period for case hardened iron tools, but not much prior that I am aware of - Cheers :)

Damien Towning

Does this mean that in the Bronze age they had the ability to make small amounts of steel for these cutting tools?

Clickspring

Terrific to have you on board mate :)

Sean Mooney

I repair antique clocks and have a good understanding of the mechanical movement. I have never fabricated a clock of my own. I have a desire to do so now, but lack the required equipment. I have a lathe and a drill press and everything else I do by hand. All the best, Sean

Clickspring

Thank you mate, terrific to have you on board :)

Bennett

Well blimey, where have you been all my life? I discovered your channel over Christmas and having now seen quite a lot of your work I feel like I can confidently say that Clickspring is the best channel out there on youtube in any genre. The videos are as well thought out and crafted as the projects you are filming. Incredible stuff.

Val storm

Might be blood from the local butcher shop, fresh that day

Clickspring

Me too John - There is so much technique and craft implied in the features of this one little machine its amazing. I'm doing some more testing of some possible ancient methods over the next week or so in prep for some more Fragments videos like this one - Cheers :)

John S Dilsaver

I'm really enjoying and learning a lot from your 'experimental archeology' approach to so many aspects of this project. Even though we have some knowledge of antiquity this work emphasizes the enormous amount we don't know.

Strothy2

I think we can all agree that Blood is the most Metal way to go!

Clickspring

There's a gag in there somewhere, but right now it escapes me :)

Clickspring

Thanks Gary :)

Clickspring

Reckon I would too :)

Clickspring

Thank you mate :)

Clickspring

Yes I think so! Cheers mate :)

Gary McKie

I like it, the attention to detail is something else!

Graeme Brumfitt

If I was an apprentice @ the time I would have been honoured to give my blood knowing it went into the making of such a device :) G

Gottfried Schuss

Hi A1BASE, You bring up interesting points. Getting an air-tight seal (approximately, air-tight) is easy -- a small-mouthed pottery jar with a beeswax/resin coated cork will get you most of what you need. If this container is to store concentrated alcohol, it will need to be stored in a cool, dark location lest the alcohol vapor pressure overcome the seal. We know that beer/wine making predates the Antikythera Mechanism (A. M.) by a significant margin. I know that jacked beer and cider significantly predates distillation. I don't know whether jacking goes back as far as the A. M. Jacking is dead easy. Farmers in the area where I grew up jacked cider, beer, and elderberry wine. I would wager that vikings jacked mead and beer, simply because it was going to happen naturally in their climate. Just because it is easy to jack beer, and just because shellac was known at the time, doesn't mean that dyed or pigmented shellac was used at the time of the A. M. This kind of thinking just gives the professional archeologist something to look for in her/his field research. Of course, the ephemeral nature of marking out means that the archeologist is going to be _exceedingly_ lucky to find residue to examine.

Sean Kirby

Just discovered that using the direct link for Vimeo instead of the embedded link seems to solve the stuttering problem. (Do need to test it on more Vimeo vids to confirm.) If I set it to 720 res on Vimeo, and let it buffer for a minute or so, it seems to handle it okay. Vimeo is definitely better picture quality. Even at 540 res I am getting at least as good quality as 720 on YouTube. Which would confirm that Vimeo is using higher bitrates. I think that all counts as a win. :)

Ralph McCoy

Chris, I am quite late with this but what about animal blood ? It would be easier to get, and less painful, not for the donor ! Ralph

Luther

This "glue" might work to affix a part to a work table too. Not sure just an idea.

Kahl'Zun

I respect your diligence in regards to testing all these things. Must have cost a packet getting all that stuff to Aus.

Clickspring

That's a very interesting idea Gottfried - I live in a warm climate too so its not something I can test out unfortunately, but I'd be interested to hear your results if you give it a go - Cheers :)

Clickspring

Yes a great many possible combinations to test out around wax and some sort of pigment - Cheers mate :)

Clickspring

Hey Bob - I'm sure a modest heat of some sort would probably improve drying times - Cheers :)

Clickspring

Thank you mate :)

Shao Zhang

What tools would I need to hand engrave comic sans?

A1BASE

I think the problem with any solvent based solution would be evaporation. Using jacking to produce a high ethanol solution would not be a quick process and I doubt they had air-tight sealed containers available back then. You'd lose most of the ethanol you produced almost as fast as you produced it, I'd imagine.

Gottfried Schuss

Hi Chris, New title for you: The Archeological Machinist. Or something similar. I think there is a multidisciplinary PhD with your name on it waiting for you to take the plunge. I like the notion of dyed or pigmented shellac as a layout marking aid / fluid. A lot. It dries quickly, leaves a crisp line, etc. Not to belabor a point, but shellac has been around for a long time. Solvent is another issue. Jacking (as in apple jack or jacked beer) has also been around for a long time - much longer than distillation. This is essentially concentration by fractional freezing. Set a barrel of beer out on a cold night, next morning remove the ice (mostly water ice). The beer's alcohol content has increased in relation to the water removed in the ice. This is a first order approximation -- some alcohol is also removed with the ice. Repeat. Granted Greece, in this sense, suffers from a Mediterranean climate. But, they traded with folks from cold climates. Eventually you get to the eutectic point of the system, which I don't know for water / alcohol. This is the point at which the alcohol water mixture freezes together. It's analogous to the azeotropic concentration of a mixture of water and alcohol. E.g., pure ethanol can't be obtained by distillation. The best one can do is about 97% ethanol. So, question remains, can one sufficiently jack beer to obtain a solvent for shellac? I'm not expecting you to experiment in this direction, but I so like the notion of shellac that I will ponder this for a while.

A1BASE

Thanks Chris!

Kevin Reardon

I'll be watching this one a few more times. They used urine (ammonia) quite a lot in leather work, so no doubt they found out it stains brass. But they did use wax tablets as scratch pads, so its an easy travel from that to putting wax on metal. I think the winner is anything based in wax. You would not make the marks and then spread stuff over to see them.

Bob Vines

Chris, For the marking materials that either took too long to dry or wouldn't dry, what if you tried using heat by placing the marked parts above a heated flat piece of metal? Would that still cause bluing?

Martijn

Clickspring

To get some redundancy from YT, and also for the better video quality - In future I will post links to both versions so that you can choose - Cheers :)

Clickspring

Awesome! Its a massive improvement over YT quality. Re the project process: I treat it as a full time job - usually a bit of testing, prototyping etc to figure out any problems beforehand and then dive into it - Cheers :)

Clickspring

Hey Rolf, yes the video will be public - Cheers :)

Clickspring

Cheers Aidan :)

Clickspring

Thank you Matt :)

Clickspring

Hey Joey, would be effective, but not sure if they fit in the period?

Clickspring

Ha ha! And the clean FNQ air! Will give the egg white a try - Cheers :)

Clickspring

Thank you mate :)

A1BASE

Why the move to Vimeo, Chris? Personally I have horrible issues streaming anything from that website.

The amount of patience and ambition you show in these projects are inspiring. I wonder, do you treat your projects like an "everyday job", kind of "grinding away" or do you just have it? 'It' meaning what seems an almost endless amount of discipline and inspiration. What's your approach to managing these tasks? I like the higher A/V quality on Vimeo!

rolf redford

Fantastic video. :) Will it be public evenually? Because unfortunately unlisted videos doesn't even get autocaptions. :)

Aidan Jeffes

Thank you for posting up a YouTube link Chris ☺ I've never had any luck with Vimeo unfortunately

Matt

Your work is outstanding. Top notch! Cheers

Joey Kendrick

Hey Chris, how about carbide lamps? That's what we use in rifle shooting to keep sights a deep flat black.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

This could make a very decent academic paper. Very well done.

Jorg Jorgensen

Thanks for the reply. As always your videos are worth jumping through a few hoops. :)

Clickspring

Thank you mate!

Clickspring

Hello mate - yes the vids will still be posted to YT, the YT upload is in progress now, and should be up by tomorrow. In future I will add links in the post text to both the Vimeo and YT versions so you can choose how you'd prefer to view them - Cheers :)

Stefan

Awesome, Chris! Your dedication to your projects is amazing! I have no problem with vimeo. I actually prefer the player and the higher video quality makes it even better :) but I also have a fast enough internet connection ;)

Quatch

I'd love if you still cross posted them to youtube so I can add it to my (private) playlist so I can watch them all without shuffling through this site. Totally understand not wanting to rely on youtube though, they are clearly not protecting their creators

Clickspring

"Thanks for watching the video" in Greek :)

Oto Moto

The text in the end on the plate.... is that perhaps "Please subscribe" in latin :) ?

Clickspring

Understood Jon thanks for letting me know :)

Jon Raymond

I really dislike the move to Vimeo solely due to the fact that viewing via Chromecast is a real pain.

Michael Kobb

Much appreciated! I enjoy these videos enormously. Thank you for producing them!

Clickspring

Thanks Luther, will check it out :)

Clickspring

Yes I agree Michael, that's the best solution - I will post the link to both YT and Vimeo so you can pick what best suits you - Cheers :)

Clickspring

Not speaking necessarily... :)

Clickspring

Terrific Martin, many thanks for the info :)

Clickspring

Understood mate - I will post a link to the YT version in the text of future posts - Cheers :)

Clickspring

Thanks for the info mate, much appreciated. It looks to be a bandwidth issue related to the higher pic quality on Vimeo. I will post with both a YT and Vimeo link in future so you can choose - Cheers :)

Clickspring

Thank you mate!

Clickspring

Cheers Jay :)

Clickspring

Thank you mate :)

Clickspring

oooh nice one - will give it a try Emma, thank you :)

Clickspring

Thank you mate - Re the player: I will post a link to both YT and Vimeo in the text of future posts so you can choose your preferred option - Cheers :)

Clickspring

OK great Andrew, many thanks for letting me know :)

Clickspring

Terrific, thanks for the info mate :)

Clickspring

Thank you Mike, so pleased :)

Clickspring

Terrific to hear that Paul, and so pleased you enjoyed it :) Re Vimeo: A recent spate of false copyright claims pushed me to look for some redundancy on video delivery, with Vimeo standing out on pic quality - Cheers :)

Clickspring

Hello mate - Yes I think what's happening is the better quality Vimeo picture is coming at the cost of higher bandwidth requirement on delivery. The vids will always go up to YT as well, so in future I'll put a direct link to both in the text of the post so you have the option to choose which one you want to use - Many thanks for the detailed info :)

Clickspring

Great idea mate, that's the way to solve it I think - Thank you for suggesting :)

Luther

Once again excellent work. An accent glue was made by pine pitch, beeswax,and charcoal in equal parts. Maybe changing the ratios would turn this into a better marking fuild. Not sure just an idea. You have done a great job again.

Michael Kobb

Would appreciate it very much if you'd post to YouTube as well as Vimeo. I watch all my usual content on my television with an Apple TV, so I have a playlist set up in YouTube to watch these things. Much less convenient to have it in Vimeo.

TomArnd

Is the next Fragment going to be "Speaking Ancient Greek" ?

Martin Anderson

(This is just to say that I had no particular difficulty watching this episode. Merely a counterpoint.)

ReggX

To be honest, I'm not really happy about the vimeo embed. I vastly prefer the old style of being able to click the link and watch the video on youtube, where player size is perfectly adjusted to display a full 1080p video while still being able to do other things.

Jorg Jorgensen

Sorry, it is unwatchable as it pauses every few seconds. Edit... after leaving it paused for a while, I was able to continue with only a few hiccups.

Dan Antonellis

Your dedication to your projects never ceases to amaze me my friend. Keep up the good work Chris!

Jay Holmes

Excellent working through of many options!

Glen Ralph

Talk about going above and beyond. Awesome work, Chris.

Emmas Spareroom Machineshop

pomegranate skin??

Jeff Armstrong

Brilliant video again. I don't see any supply problems with blood as a marking fluid. You don't have to use human blood. My better half is an amateur archaeologist of the period and her work shows that butchery was a common practice at the time. Pigs and sheep both would provide a suitable marking out fluid. The egg tempera using soot would also work. It has been used as an artist's medium for centuries. Like the others I'm not keen on the Vimeo player and was disappointed to see it used.

Andrew Pratt

Very instructional content Chris, many thanks. No stuttering here!

Mr Bryce Stoddart JP

Excellent video as always. After reading the comments I when back and watch it again on 1080 but got no stuttering at either 1080 or 720.

Mike Michelizzi

I must be the lucky one that had no issues with vimeo. I hope you can work out the teething problems quickly since you put so much effort into coming up with and making the videos. This was another interesting and enlightening one - thank you!

chunk

after reading your other responses I understand the move to vimeo, I support the move, just suggest adding a link to the video alongside the embedded video. That way we get a few more options in terms of video player size.

Paul Busby

Another great video Chris. I can only imagine how much time and effort it took to source all the stuff to do all the testing. The video ran fine for me (full screen). What was the reasoning for switching to Vimeo? Only curious.

Markos Skoulatos

Nice one! Not to forget that I found the making process of this mixture quite an alchemy and something I believe the ancients would also be keen to do. It was for sure the most enjoyable to watch :)

Sean Kirby

Excellent. First video for the year. :) Sadly, as for others, it is unwatchable due to incredibly slow buffering from Vimeo. Even on Auto setting it is stuttering almost continuously. I have never had much success with Vimeo, for exactly this awful buffering problem. I have pretty much given up trying to watch videos there. Also, I don't have the fastest connection. It is usually only good for a reliable 720 on YouTube. So I prefer to download the 1080 version from YT to my drive, then watch it locally. However that is not an option for Vimeo as I can't get a source URL from the embedded video to download it. Do agree the picture quality is noticeably better on Vimeo. Though I am happy enough with YT's quality as well. It is certainly an acceptable trade off if I can watch it without stuttering, plus the download option. Can you also upload a copy to YT? (I know your internet connection isn't the fastest either.) Cheers Sean

Clickspring

Ha ha! ευχαριστώ! I agree that one was excellent - will definitely be using that again on camera. - Cheers :)

Markos Skoulatos

I am deeply impressed, not only for the plethora of techniques presented, but also with the end (test) result. My favourite method is the one including the ingredient of Μαστίχα Χίου. It also seems very authentic and would like to see more about it if time permits. Well done mate! Ευχαριστούμε για την προσφορά σου, φίλε ελληνιστή!

Clickspring

So pleased you enjoyed it Derek :)

Derek McAllan

Fascinating video Chris, very interesting to see such a thorough dive into the theoretical options available to those in days past!

Clickspring

Thank you mate :)

Clickspring

Yes the picture quality on Vimeo is essentially the same as what I send down the pipe, which is a huge improvement on YT. The other thing is the false copyright claims on YT are now becoming a real problem, hence the effort to find an independent solution - Cheers :)

Phil Sydor

Excellent Chris - Master engraver, master chemical engineer, master maker etc. Your skills are inspiring!

Clickspring

Thank you mate :)

Clickspring

Cheers mate :)

Clickspring

Understood, thanks for letting me know - Cheers :)

wolph

For me it's not so much that it doesn't work. It's just that the Youtube interface has somewhat better usability. I have to agree with the quality though, it looks absolutely fantastic compared to Youtube :)

Clickspring

Mainly for the improved video quality (YT squashes the image quality), but also for the additional redundancy from YT - I'll see what I can find out about the stuttering issue - Cheers :)

Matt Mills

It's quite possible that you can get a good supply of blood from a butcher; pig's blood probably has the same properties, and is much less dear.

Clickspring

OK thank you will investigate, thank you :)

Clickspring

Ok understood, will investigate thanks for letting me know :)

Clickspring

Ok will try to learn more about it - I'm trying out Vimeo for a few reasons (better video quality mainly), but have not experienced any problems with the player - maybe let me know the device/platform you're on so I can narrow it down - Cheers :)

Daniel

woOT!! my first video after becoming a supporter. Love your work Chris. Very inspiring.

chunk

not a fan of the video player, seems like the only size options are post stamp size or full screen. also a pain to have to sign in to patreon to view it. if you are having problems with people sharing your unlisted youtube videos then I'd understand.. otherwise I vote youtube love the video by the way, it must have taken months to source all the materials

Al

Hey Chris, Long time lover of your videos, first time commenting. The stuttering experienced when watching this completely destroys the relaxed feeling i get from watching your videos. Why have you switched formated? Thanks Al

James Cuddihy

I am having trouble watching the video. Can watch Youtube no worries but having buffering issues at 380p on this one.

Just some stale toast

Wonderful as always Chris, although the player definitely had stutter issues

Just some stale toast

The new player definitely has stutter issues, I have to agree with you there

wolph

Very interesting video again Chris, it's certainly something I've never given much thought before. PS: can't say I'm too much of a fan of the vimeo player, the YouTube player is much more convenient (especially on phones)

Clickspring

Ha ha! mate my yard is a bloody disaster! Yes agreed on the drying times, will try out a bit of sunlight and see how it goes - Cheers :)

Iain Deas

So Chris is also a master engraver, reads and writes in Ancient Greek. I bet you’re that annoying guy on the street with a perfect lawn and not a weed in sight 🤣 on another note the drying time would probably be made obsolete just by putting the part in the sun. I recon all of those would dry in a minute or so in direct sunlight. Especially in summer.

Clickspring

Cheers mate!

Clickspring

Thank you mate - Yes the smudge mark is a winner, loved some of the others too!

Casper Mønsted

Impressive! very high production value and awesome content! Thank you Chris!

Clickspring

OK thank you mate, I have changed that one too so it should be good to go for you now :)

Vesa-Pekka Palmu

TGT#7 does not play for me

Gregor Shapiro

Sweden is good. Chris, what do you mean by comment "below this one"? When writing this (18 minutes after that comment) it is directly below it. Great vidor and exceptional dedication to testing possibilities. As Occam and Einstein pointed out the simplest is the most likely. dirt or soot spit or blood piss or earwax seem likely candidates.

Clickspring

Hey lads do me a favour and tell me if you have any probs seeing the post immediately below this one (TGT#7) I moved that one to Vimeo too, but have not changed the settings