Allan_G
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Chapter 123 – Stretching Fate
🕑 Added 2024-11-08 06:18:14 +0000 UTC“So, are you going to spill?” Corrine asked. “How did you gain those abilities? Did someone give you a treasure?”
Briefly, he considered the gifts that Eloise had given him. In a way, they counted. Of course, he no longer possessed them as nothing could go in and out of the trial, but they had been a priceless possession at the time. While a tier three weapon in the greater scheme of things was nothing to humanity, it had been critical on the last day. But it was not why he had the abilities that had let him beat her, or at least not directly. The cause of them was different, and she wasn’t going to like it.
He scratched his head ruefully. “Nothing so simple. I kind of did something stupid.”
Her face grew alarmed. “Dangerous?”
“You could say that.”
“Why the fuck would you do that? Are you an idiot? You’re sitting on a gold mine of ranking points with your danger sense ritual disks. Why the fuck would you jeopardise that? Out of every reincarnator, you’re the last of us who should be gambling our lives.”
“There were mitigating circumstances.”
She cradled her head in her hands in mock despair. “Really Tom. You’re so fucking thick sometimes. I’m not sure you understand how valuable those disks are going to be.”
“I do.”
She snorted. “No, you fucking don’t. I’ve seen it. People get a warning when their time is up. The number of kids who survive for months and months with a cautious strategy and then throw it away in their final weeks is astronomical. They do the maths and discover they need more coins to make a difference and think they have no choice but to fight without a GOD’s shield. They’re the hope of their civilisation and my friends as well. And Tom, they die. Almost all of them. Your invention can stop that. Instead of dying they get the coins they need to transform their species. You’ll be saving fifty plus people a year. That’s fifty geniuses that will live because of you. The direct contribution just from them will be massive. Then beyond that there’s the impact on the diminishing species. No ones guaranteed to succeed but out of that many potentials some of them will. That’s the point of this setup. Just think about it. How many ranking points is changing the fate of a dozen species worth. It might by itself get us to third.”
“I know.”
“That benefits too valuable for all of us for you to be taking stupid gambles.”
“Corrine, I understand.”
“Then why did you fucking do something dangerous? Are we talking deadly dangerous?”
“Yes. Some would say suicidal.”
“Fuck. Why?” Then, in contrast to her anger, she yawned, a massive involuntary expression of her exhaustion. “Fuck, I don’t have the energy for this conversation. I’m seriously struggling here. You have no idea how hard the survival course is, and it’s mostly environmental, so my magic did shit all.”
“You should have invested more into healing.”
She rolled her eyes. “That’s dumb. There’re healing crystals and top-notch healers everywhere. For most circumstances I’m facing, healing is useless. I need abilities to help me win battles in here,” she gestured at their surroundings, but he knew she meant in the official duels. “No amount of healing will help me win those fights. Anyway, stop being an evasive and mysterious arsehole. What stupidity did you get up to?”
“Do you know the darkhole trial has started wandering?”
She yawned again. “Yeah, our class was told.” Then his words seemed to penetrate, and her gaze snapped to him. “Wait, you didn’t?”
“Didn’t what?” he queried innocently.
“Challenge it.”
“No. It wandered, and it asked me. Tried to bribe me with an offer to answer any question I wanted. I refused.”
“It asked you personally?”
“Appeared right in front of my face. I was walking along and literally ran into it. So, yes it was a personal invite. I think a GOD might have interfered to make it happen, but that’s a different story.”
She raised an eyebrow. “A GOD. Are you fucking kidding me?”
Tom had to admit he was enjoying the whiplash of her emotions his words were generating. Corrine had a very expressive face. “Nope. I can’t prove it, but I’m sure it was a GOD. Scout’s honour.”
Her expression switched back from disbelief to focused intensity. “Wait. Stop playing games. Tell me exactly what happened.”
“I am. As I said I think one of the GODs of GODDESSs interfered to make the trial offer me a spot.”
“Stop mucking around and tell the fucking story without the pointless embellishments. We’re in a world where I command the essence of the inferno. I don’t need to listen to made up shit.”
“I’m not playing games, Corrine. As I said a GOD.”
“Tom,” she interrupted warningly.
“Corrine. I swear on the GODs that I have empirical reasons to believe the trial only approached me because of a GOD interfering.”
She squawked in horror and threw herself away from him. She paused after she had opened up almost three metres between them and looked anxiously at the sky.
“Stop being dramatic. I’m not about to be smited” His multiple levels in Known Heretic and what Adam had implied in their conversation meant he was pretty confident that his guess was accurate.
Corrine’s eyes didn’t leave the sky.
“Look I’m still alive,” he told her. “Guess I was telling the truth.” The GODs had been invoked. He knew that she would have felt it and as a result there was no doubt about the accuracy of his claim.
Another ten seconds passed during which she scanned the environment. Finally, she looked at him. She did not look at all happy. “Tom, that was beyond reckless and dangerous. You should know fucking better.”
“Maybe I know stuff you don’t.”
“Never do an oath like that again!” She almost shouted over his protestations. “That was fucking dumb, a moronic risk.”
“Would you have believed me otherwise?”
“Does it fucking matter if I believe you! What I think doesn’t change a fucking thing! Don’t do oaths of that kind. It’s fucking dumb.”
He winced. When he looked at it like that, even if the chance of it back firing was only one in a million, that was not a worthwhile trade. “Good point.” He conceded.
She calmed slightly, but he could tell she was determined to hear his whole story. “So, the darkhole trial approached you, proposed an incentive, and you rejected it.” She prompted. “And then let me guess. It returned with a better offer.”
“In a way. But how did you?”
“I don’t need to be fucking Nostradamus to work that out. It’s pretty damn obvious don’t you think? So it came back with a different bargain, and that made you challenge the fucking darkhole trial of all fucking terrors out there.” She covered her eyes in despair. “You’re a loose cannon, aren’t you?”
“I challenged the Explosive Growth Trial,” he corrected with a grin.
“Who cares what it calls itself. I still don’t get why. Your disks are going to make you millions of ranking points and not to mention the coins you’ll get to shape your build. Why risk that?”
“Briana.”
Exasperation flashed across her face. “You risked everyone for her? For one stupid child?”
“Corrine,” he snarled and glared at her. She registered what she had said, and her cheeks flushed red.
“Fuck. Fuck. Sorry, I didn’t mean it like that. Fuck. I’m guessing she got sucked in and you felt obliged to rescue her.”
“Basically. But I didn’t just jump in blind. I knew it wasn’t a guaranteed death sentence. The trial made certain representations guaranteed by an oath on the GODS. I had a greater than twenty-five percent chance of winning. Its rules prevented it from quoting a higher percentage. Victory could have even been a certainty.”
“Was it?” she shot back.
Tom shook his head as he remembered what they had done to win. It could have easily gone bad.
“So Briana accepted an invitation.”
“She was approached because of me, and she agreed because of my actions. I couldn’t walk away. She’s just a child.”
Corrine looked pained. “That’s a shitty situation.”
“It wanted me, so it found a lever and exploited it.”
“And an easy one too,” she agreed. “Fucking kids. They’re fucking crazy and simple to manipulate. What a fucking cunt of a trial.”
“I felt I had no choice.”
“Oh, I understand, and I’m sorry for what I said earlier about Briana. If I were put in that situation, I would have done the same thing. Logic be damned! Right?” While she was talking, she was picking up little clumps of sand and flicking them away in agitation. “So, long story short, you beat the darkhole trial?”
“I did. As did Kang, Eloise and Briana.”
Corrine whistled softly. “Eloise?”
Tom rolled his eyes. “She was a surprise. She joined up to save Briana too.”
“So the four of you won. Were the rewards good? Did it teach you those skills? Is that where your Lightning Javelin came from.”
“Not directly. I earned that with hard work and practice. The darkhole trial has perfect time dilation. For me, two months has passed, and that’s what my training got me.”
She whistled. “Two months is significant.”
“It is, but you won’t get that long.” He hesitated. “I have certain advantages that extended the duration.”
“Yes, I know what you mean. I have similar bonuses that apply elsewhere.”
“As for the actual rewards, they were incredible. You should aim to get them.”
“Maybe after I have a sleep.”
“No, no, too soon.” Tom shook his head vigorously. “No don’t rush. If I was in your position, I’d spend a couple of months using fate to shape the trial.” He had half expected his throat to choke up, but Corrine obviously already knew that function of fate, so his geas didn’t stop him from speaking the truth.
“I guess that makes sense. But you beat it without preparation.”
“It was close and if I could do it again, I would spend more time preparing,” he interrupted and then quickly explained the escalating nature of the threat.
Corrine nodded thoughtfully. “That’s why everyone who challenges this dies.” Then she frowned. “I’m almost too old, aren’t I?”
Tom shrugged. “You’ve got a better feel for your capabilities than I do. But too old no. Worse case is once you hit fifteen, you spend a few months farming experience to buy spells and skills to boost your combat readiness.”
“True. And I’ll use the weekly trial to prepare,” she mused. “I can get it to test me against rank twelves and improve my strengths to beat them. That’s some synergy between the weekly trial capabilities and preparing for the dark hole trial. Almost like it was planned.”
“Very suspicious.” Tom agreed.
“Do you think I can cross that sort of ranking gap? Because the higher rank monsters that I’m facing are all going to have multiple abilities.”
“Kang and I carried two non-combatants, so it’s definitely doable. What rank are you?”
“Two and a half, well closer to three to be honest.”
“So, that means you’ll be facing rank elevens?”
“Yeah. But that’s not necessarily a problem if we get them tailored. If fate makes them vulnerable to fire, I guess I could beat them. And Dimitri has pointedly refused to let me see the community prayers, so I’m sure there’s something there helping me too.” Her fingers tapped on her thigh. “With the right preparation, some treasures from Dim I can do it. When I am successful, what amazing abilities can I expect?” she grinned at him.
He explained both of the traits he had received. “And there’s other stuff as well of course.”
“I’m sure there was.” She agreed. “So, in that first duel with me, you only used the equaliser trait?”
“Yes, it doubled my speed and perception, which let me dodge the fire whip.”
“Then, in the second, you used a burst to sprint away.”
“Exactly.”
“Your build is definitely coming along, but you still need magic shielding,” she waved her hand, and a pane of glowing light appeared attached to her palm. It was the size of a small buckler.. Then she flicked it again and another more opaque version materialised, doubling up the protection. “Your problem is your tool kit is only offensive.”
“And crafting,” he said with a grin.
“You know what I mean.”
“Yes, and I agree with you completely. Now that the first layer of my offense is sorted. I’m going to get some magic shielding.”
Abruptly, she stood. “Now that you’ve confessed your secrets do you feel up for another round?”
Mentally, he went over the abilities that he knew she had. Her wider area of effect spells and some of the instant cast ones could definitely counter his mobility. Now that she understood how fast he could move she would be able to stop him and then there was the double layered shield. It would take two spears to get through that. Basically, without the element of surprise, he was screwed, and that was just based on the bits of the build he knew of. She was bound to have other stuff in reserve. He pretended to look at his non-existent watch. “Unfortunately, I don’t have the time now.”
“Come on, Tom. Don’t be a pussy. It’ll be fun.”
He looked sheepish. “Yeah, well. I know you’re exhausted from training, and it’ll be unfair to take advantage.”
“No, I’m fine. You won’t be taking advantage. I’m up for another round.”
He sensed magic forming around her and hastily he cancelled the session, and a moment later he was back in the study hall with Corrine next to him. Throm had already left.
Corrine was laughing at him. “That was the worse excuse ever. Did you really pretend to check your watch?”
“The key takeaway from this is that sometimes I can show good judgement. I’m not always reckless.”
She frowned slightly. “Tom, I know what I said at the start, but you have to be true to yourself. Well done keeping her alive.”
“I still feel shit prioritising her.” he admitted, even while internally acknowledging that he would take similar risks again if it was needed.
“She’s part of humanity’s future, too. There’s nothing wrong with looking after her.” Then she yawned again. “I really have to crash.”
There was no flash or anything like that, but between one instant and the next she was just no longer there.
It was dinnertime and then he settled into the evening routine and apart from his hidden spell practice he allowed himself a few hours without training.
All too soon, he was lying in bed ready to sleep, but his brain wouldn’t let him. His thoughts kept repeating not the events of the dark hole trial, but what had happened immediately before it. The memory of him repeatedly flipping the coin and then after that what DEUS had allowed him to see.
A monumental event that had come from nothing. Just a tiny bit of curiosity and shaping fate in a direction it wasn’t meant to. The flipping of the disk, a failure of his discipline and the improbable run of results that had followed.
A trick that every other divine championship human competitor had discovered independently and applied to various levels of success.
A way to allow fate to see the future.
A substitute for a divination ability.
If his hunch was right, it meant the innate human racial trait could duplicate a skill that would otherwise cost millions of experience.
To be honest, it didn’t feel quite kosher, but the truth was there to be observed. It might feel wrong, but the technique worked, well, not for him yet but for the others. Corrine had success with it, and the historical results of the other humans confirmed the technique’s validity.
Used properly, the method was potentially even stronger than the DEUS Chosen trait and he knew from personal experience how powerful being able to ask yes or no questions and have them be answered truthfully was.
He was almost salivating at the thought of what he could investigate. There were so many questions he could profit from getting answered.
Should my focus be on killing the dragon?
Should I concentrate on genociding terror races?
Once I’m an adult, is my time best spent uplifting other species?
Should I prioritise buying the divine fruit even at the cost of everything else?
There were so many lines of inquiry he could pursue to shape the future. He knew he was going to get a much-reduced version of DEUS’s Chosen due to his title, but if fate let him ask a question daily instead of monthly, that was a massive difference.
He was almost giddy imagining it and he realised there was no way he could sleep without testing this. The idea was too huge to not investigate immediately.
When he strained his ears, there were no noises that suggested others were awake, so he slipped out. The hallways with the illusions that made them terrifying for everyone else did not bother him, and a short time later he entered one of the isolation rooms.
The usual barrage of tests occurred to ensure there were no unwelcome presences within and his Danger Sense likewise picked up nothing.
It was time to do the test.
He was so excited. This, if it worked, would change everything.
Living Wood manipulation loped off the end of a spear, and in moments he had a coin. One side was given the image of the head and the other of a bird.
Mentally, he created the image that he wanted. The plan was that twelve straight heads in a row would mean ‘Yes.’
As prepared as he was ever going to get, he took a deep breath. “Is the best result for humanity achieved if I cut off all contact with Briana?” he asked out loud. The term ‘best for humanity’ was defined around the expected number of ranking points humans would receive. This was not a question he wanted to ask, but he felt compelled to do so.
As Corrine had said, Briana was part of humanity. This question was as much for her as it was for others. Nevertheless, he truly hoped the answer was not a yes. The thought of having to do so after what she had gone through in the darkhole trial was enough to make him almost want to cry. But he had never been one to let sentimentally get in the way of the greater good.
Bitterly he spent twenty fate and flipped the coin fully intending to be bound by the answer.
Discordant trumpets went off in his head.
A sharp pain spiked through his skull, and he crashed down onto his knees as he was suddenly unable to support his weight.
The whole world rocked, and he felt dissociated from his body. His sluggish mind struggled to understand what had happened.
He was dimly aware of the coin landing and bouncing and then rolling away from him, but he didn’t care.
His head hurt.
With all of his focus, he activated Touch Heal. Instantly, the diagnosis component reported the results.
There was nothing physically wrong. No damage in his brain for it to fix and yet he still felt like the universe was wrong, that the walls were not stable and that he lacked the energy to shift from his knees. If anything, he wanted to keel forward and collapse fully onto the ground.
He was too tired for that.
It was weird. He knelt, unable to move, his blood thundering in his ears.
There was a dripping sound.
He looked down.
Plop.
There was a small puddle under him, with splashes radiating outwards. It was red.
Plop.
The dripping sounds, the funny feeling he was suffering.
Confused, he stared at the wooden floorboards and the splatter of blood.
Another drop fell and added additional complexity to the pattern.
He was bleeding, he realised, and he raised a hand to his nose and then looked numbly at his now red stained fingers.
His nose was literally dripping, and Touch Heal had found nothing!
The world swayed.
Plop!
It was a mess that he was going to have to clean up once he got energy back.
What’s happening? He asked himself.
Plop!
It had just been a simple use of fate. Then the strange trumpets gone off and there had been a spike of pain followed by this bleeding.
He had done something wrong. Something, somehow, but the question was what? Why was his nose bleeding? Why was the world swaying? What did the noise represent? Trumpets were good, weren’t they?. Was this backlash from receiving some sort of overpowered skill.
A thrill of excitement went through him. He wondered what he might have received.
Plop!
The blood drained the excited energy away. He wondered if this was what death felt like. He hoped he wasn’t dying, but he didn’t think these symptoms were consistent with getting a reward.
He glanced at the ritual status screen and then pushed to his feet.
That was the answer.
He stumbled over to it and with clumsy hands activated it, and then he focused his scattered thoughts on bringing up the most recent ability he had received.
The negative symptoms were fading, and he hoped that was a good sign. Maybe he had gotten a title for discovering another use for fate.
Writing filled the screen, and his brief burst of joy collapsed into ashes when he registered the contents.
Plop.
The dripping blood landed on the screen and splattered. A radial circle of mini droplets spread out from the impact point.
He sniffled and placed a hand to block his nose as he stared at the contrast between the bright display and his very red blood. “Fuck,” he whispered and then reluctantly focused on the writing.
Internally, he prayed that he had misread but knew he hadn’t.
Title: One Exploit too Far (I)
You have attempted to arbitrage the system and use fate for a purpose beyond the bounds of its intended use cases. You were at a conscious, or at the very least in your upper subconscious aware that this action went against the GOD’s plan for the ability.
Tom re-reading that description was suddenly thankful that the title was as benign as it was. It was basically accusing him of deliberately exploiting something against the wishes of the GODs. That was a dangerous path in Existentia. Everyone knew the consequences of accidental blasphemy. To do so willingly would ratchet the corresponding punishment to another level. For him to have done so when GODs were actively hunting him was the equivalent of committing suicide by volunteering for a month long torture session.
It’s the kind of thing that would get a named term assigned to it. The Tom award, which would be like the Darwin award just reserved for people even more monumentally stupid.
He was very glad the reaction was constrained to this title versus the alternative.
Plop!
His perfectly healthy nose continued to bleed, but the frequency was reducing, which told him that it would stop soon. Grimly, he resumed his re-read.
The transgression was for using fate for divination.
The human racial skill has a loose relationship with the future when it is used. By design, the ability influences probabilities to achieve a future impact. To maximise efficiency, this involves a level of precognition to determine what random chance event to influence now to get the maximum benefit in one, ten, twenty minutes’ time or in a week, month, or year.
As a result of your attempt to exploit this link, the following penalty is applied.
Permanent Penalty: Any fate you spend will be barred from using precognition at any time horizon greater than four minutes. As a result, your fate’s efficiency in time frames beyond four minutes will be materially nerfed.
Tom considered that penalty and what it meant. For combat, he would mostly be okay, but longer time periods would be problematic. Building fate up over days to help with a perfect cast of a spell became a lot more troublesome. As would influencing levels like he had done in the Explosive Growth Trial. Shaping of battle grounds for anything other than the most immediate of benefits was now pointless.
It was not terrible. A lot of the core behaviours would continue to function as powerfully as ever. Chaos Bolts could still be enhanced at will to defeat powerful enemies, lucky moments in battle would continue to occur, loot portals could be directed to meet needs and his capacity to influence evolutions and perfect casts at least the final step hadn’t changed.
The biggest impact Tom realised was on his newly created earned skill. That hundred points of fate he was generating daily, in one unit increments, could no longer be used efficiently. His current method of sending them to influence future events would be ineffective.
That was sad, but he was confident he would be able to think of a method to continue to gain benefits for it.
He felt like hitting something, but he didn’t. Flexing his willpower, he kept reading to absorb the extra’s that he was sure that DEUS had insisted on being included. He wondered if it would have any hidden meaning.
Note 1. This is a contagious title. If you give guidance about it, instead of the recipient being barred from it, they will instead receive it immediately.
Note 2. The ability for fate to predict the future was explicitly allowed by the GODs within the Divine Champions Trial. This title does not supersede that GODs placed mandate and Fate within the divine champions’ trial will continue to have the same impact it always has.
Note 3. Known Heretic has influenced this title and been changed in turn. This title has contributed a small amount to upgrading Known Heretic to a new level. In the other direction these notes have been made available due to the boost.
Note 4. The core functionality of fate remains unaltered. The only component that has been restricted is nebulous intentions towards the future. Short term use within the four minute window remains unaltered. For full clarity investing future fate towards a perfect cast attempt with a sideways evolution is unfortunately impacted because the innovation into the weaves is done in the future. This method for all humans was already suffering a seventy percent reduction in efficiency versus having the fate act in real time.
Tom paused to consider the wording of the text which he presumed DEUs had caused to be included. That last line pretty much told him that him sending fate into the future was a mistake. He had been losing seventy percent of the impact by saving it up like that. Ideas of how to adjust his approach occurred to him but he would worry about that later. The GODs must have argued long and hard about what to include and it sounded like his patreon GODDESS had won.
Probably only because Known Heretic was at such a high level.
He continued reading.
As for nebulous use of fate in the future, like what was previously done to shape trials this will be heavily nerfed. However, a more concrete application of intention will get better result. An image such as ‘make it so my party can beat the trial,’ might suffer a 99.9% penalty, while defining ‘the monster to have a speed less than rank four along with significant lightning vulnerability’ might drop the penalty to only 80%. If this image is refining further the penalty might reduce to less than 50%.
Tom sighed and then felt the subtle movement on his nose and caught the next drop just before it splattered on the screen.
He glanced around the empty isolation room. Even though the effort had backfired, even though it had resulted in his fate being nerfed the potential reward for success meant that the attempt had been worth it.
“You can’t win them all Tom.” He told himself. And the cost of this title was nowhere near as bad as it could have been. He could still use his coin trick in the divine trials and if he had to shape future events, there would be allies around who would be able to do that on his behalf.
Really, nothing had changed.
There was still a competition to win.
Comments
gordianTangle
Not being allowed to use fate to free-form predict the future is a good change, but the rest of this change seems like a VERY bad idea. Shaping the future has been a core concept since Fate Points, and this feels like it breaks that promise. The response to an exploit is patching the exploit, not throwing the game away.
Malcolm Haynes
I’m just wondering if author was intentionally trolling us with this: “But he had never been one to let sentimentally get in the way of the greater good.” Really Tom? 😂
Aaron Weingrad
Also, there is a B story line of the battle between Deus and the Dragon God. While this is currently a loss for Tom we haven’t actually seen the consequences of this move in the God’s battlefield. There is something of a pattern of Deus using Tom’s innovation and munchkinning to get the Dragon God to over correct and expose himself later. I can see this coming around to bite him on the ass. He demands a punishment for Tom being a heretic and sets up some consequence that hits out of left field.
Aaron Weingrad
Perhaps the fate he spends now being utterly focused on the short term will be extra powerful?
GSA
Even better idea: Meeting of the Gods: Humans will not be allowed to use fate to influence their performance, opponents, battlefield, or anything within the divine champions trial battles Deus Complaint: That renders their racial trait meaningless, something no other species deals with. Balance: Humans who make it into the trial will be granted a slight upgrade of their species trait that allows it to be used as a short term divination ability, not exceeding one hour into the future, only for themselves, and only regarding known one on one battles.
GSA
I strongly disagree with the permanent fate nerf. Reader engagement will drop as the novel long-term application of fate was a huge attractor; setting limits takes away the fun of speculating. Deus would've burnt a divine intervention to prevent that degree of a nerf in her champion.
GSA
Make the punishment a full year delay before being able to access Deus Chosen and have it done with. Make the title grant an increased understanding of the will of the Gods within the system, and have it come with a warning that the next time will result in more significant punishments. This is a more proportional response, and fits Toms reaction far better than losing the precog aspect past 4 minutes.
callum joyce
Tom thought up the idea of using fate for divination based on events from the champions trial. He had no knowledge of the GOD's pledge that fate could be used that way, but only in the divine trial. This feels like it punishes Tom for following a natural thought process of trying to use what he learns in the divine trial. I think the nature of the punishment is both too harsh and also just unfun for the reader. Tom thinking up ways to use fate by dedicating months of built up fate has become an integral part of the story which I personally enjoy and would prefer not to see that part relegated to a side character duty. I like the contagious aspect of it, as that fits the type of punishment you would expect from certain GOD's.
Laura Pilkington
didn’t know there could be bad titles, lol. he got smacked by a divine DM. this is a pretty massive nerf though
Cam
My first thought was the ability was too broken when he came up with the idea, so it wasn't going to work or would not be allowed and since others have done it, it wouldn't be a case of the gods sitting at the table reflecting on it, it would already have been worked out. As soon as the trumpets went off and he felt the pain or whatever backlash, my immediate thought was that he was getting punished. That reas to me as similar to or exactly like the kinds of effects we'd seen in fate points and earlier with one of the other races, i think it was throm, when they tried to help Tom with the ritual. That registered to me as a backlash warning by the gods, and the trumpets would be the message. I didn't at any point think it was going to be a good thing, I did imagine a geas would be instituted. As Tom reflected, I thought maybe there was a chance, in addition to the geas, that he also got some title benefit from it but also considered it a faint possibility, mostly just my hopes being illogical. What was revealed was within my expectations. Also, it's disappointing that Tom's ability to send fate towards an skill creation, domain creation or similar scenario will be so heavily nerfed. The spells are different because he has to practice it nearly to perfection first, there was a lot more fate involved towards skills, domain, etc
KB
Yeah but Tom is operating within the bounds of that. He’s not trying to break the geas or otherwise get around any limitations the gods have imposed. He’s just trying to use fate as much as possible within those limits. If the gods didn’t want this usage they could certainly ban it. But they didn’t put any clear block against it and are punishing him retroactively for trying something they never clearly prohibited. It just feels like a harsher standard to other possible gaps in the rules, and it feels targeted at Tom. Just MHO.
Tom D
This is a crazy penalty for Tom to suffer because of a coin toss as others have said he has social silence that would stop him from speaking completely as at least a preliminary warning and two he used this technique in the champion trials why wouldn’t he do so again? The only way he wouldn’t have known fate couldn’t be used this way would to write that it was part of the memories he’s lost and he can’t be blamed for things taken away from him due to reincarnation
FenyaFluff
While well written in itself, the chapter feels a bit off: 1) Tom behaves annoyingly by leading Corrine on which does not feel like him. Maybe the first 2 occurances in order to play down the situation but not going on and on. 2) the thought about using fate as precognition comes out of the blue, with no thoughts really leading to the idea. 3) the punishment for trying to use fate as precognition is too harsh. When we think about what other humans would use fate on, only a small part of what is used for remains (trial rewards, though only when standing before the reward rift; fate combat skills which to our knowledge nearly no humans have; very short term skill/spell acquisition). There is no shaping anything anymore, no preparing things in advance. I agree with punishing him for trying but if you want to stay heavy with the punishment, maybe extend the 4 minutes to a day/a couple of hours and/or have a slow exponential falloff. If there may be more levels in the title in the future, keep in mind that the title is going to worsen. In case this has not been in your plan for a long time, this may break the story IMHO. That aside, my condolences for your father's passing. As well as thank your for the chapter, even in trying times. Best regards
Memnun
Tom grows up and has to explain why he isn't contributing to community prayers, somehow without telling enough about the trait to spread it. With Tom's affinity for precognition I was under no assumption that this would be a problem until the ritual screen said so; I figured the sudden pain was along the lines of getting some high-tier trait or title that his little tier 0 body couldn't handle, and that DEUS in particular would be a fan of Tom "cheating" like this. Also 4 minutes is functionally real-time, when fate is demonstrably the least effective. The whole situation definitely feels like an artificial roadblock to solve in anything between 3 and 90 chapters, depending on the direction the rest of the story is going
Arnon Parenti
At the very early chapters of fp the GODs whine that the human trait is op and game breaking, their compromise is the Gaeas and other limits on using Fate
KB
I don’t understand how this was against the will of the gods. Failing an exploit is not normally punitive, it just fails. This feels like Makros, Fames, etc just forcing a vote to punish him. I wonder if he could get a compensating title, that reduces the punishment, by recognizing that?
OriksGaming
So, the title says he had some knowledge that it would go against the gods' will, but there's no indication of that in his thought process whatsoever. Beyond that, it would be more consistent with previous instances if he were to either gain a strict warning and temporary punishment, or even benefits, rather than a permanent punishment. If Tom did think that it might be going against the gods' will, and still did it . . . well, he's made some very stupid choices before this, so it's not entirely out of character—but again, his thoughts don't indicate this at all, so he's being heavily punished (seemingly unfairly) for a perceived slight. Even if/when the chapter gets fixed so it makes more sense, I think it'll still feel pretty unjust, especially when it seems like nothing less than the author's hand balancing the scale right after a huge reward as opposed to a justified punishment. Obviously there's a plan here, and it probably would have been a pain in the ass to let him ask a question per day, but it really feels as if a warning that cuts off his ability to do so, and only that, would have been much more applicable here. The massive physical punishment (immediate near death experience) seems like enough of a warning, if paired with an effect-less title. I understand that you, as the author, are running out of things to challenge the MC while he's still a child, but with the assassin thing played out already and the Briana situation essentially handled, more contrived roadblocks are going to make the rest of the kid section drag on. In regards to directly answering your question, I thought it was too broken as an ability to be allowed almost as soon as it was mentioned, but I thought it was a loophole that would have been patched immediately after Tom succeeded in a single instance. Having the Briana question answered would have let Tom justify hanging around her to himself and argue from a more confident position against anyone trying to pointlessly separate them—even without mentioning the results to anyone else. It also feels like the whole avoiding Briana thing has been done already and this would prevent it from popping up again for no reason (which is, annoyingly, a possibility even after the darkhole rewards). Overall, it's just a pretty unsatisfying chapter that directly takes away from the satisfaction of the darkhole rewards. The whole punishment feels illogical and heavy handed, and it's far easier to justify it from a Doylist perspective than Watsonian. It's not a total dealbreaker, but it's going to take a bit before I'm as invested in the story again. Edit: The fix expanded on it the trait further, which ended up largely changing the entire meaning of the nerf, so I stand corrected. I like the new version a lot better.
Casual Ham
I agree with comments that it's odd he had no warning of how dangerous it could be. I think I'd be fine with it if the penalty was less severe (like it can't extend beyond a week or a day instead of 4 minutes), but it's currently a really harsh penalty for a race that is basically entirely dependent on the use of fate to shape probability.
Arnon Parenti
In this chapter Tom thought he got something really good just before the pain and discordant trumpets, such a skill was never mentioned before, and this is a very random thought coming from my fascination with time loopers, I thought it could be a nice evolution to his danger sense, or something he gained by gaming the system till it breaks.
A B
Yeah, but it could also force him to work with others more on the long term fate stuff. Granted if he's continually generating fate throughout the day with various things, it's all going to waste unless he can find something to spend it on.
Krzysztof Kiel
That title is BS, same thing that works in Divine champions trial gets punished outside? BS
Marvincardo
As others mentioned below the it feels like danger sense should have warned him. It is not clear to the reader that Tom knows he is going against the gods. Maybe a few extra sentences? I think the concept of the punishment is fine in general but this seems extremely harsh. I think the fact that you are asking means you agree. My advice which you are welcome to ignore would be for him just get a warning instead of a title. Unless you specifically need to nerf Tom.
DBuck
I just don’t want a penalty that impacts him the rest of the book like the tier 8 divinition ability in fate points. I like Tom building his skill set using fate, and it seemed like it was the reason he would be such a beneficiary of reincarnation. doesn’t this put a domain much further away?
Scott Frederiksen
Did not have any issues or concern until you brought this up... Interesting take for social silence and curious author's take.
Talen Drake
I think Tom is too in tune with precognition and danger sense to have this happen. It feels like artificial stupidity and no warning for plot's sake. I'm really not understanding how he can even take such an action with social silence, the GODs are also someone he can offend with his words, and that is dangerous to do. Feels like a huge plot hole action.
A B
The penalty seems harsh for having no warning, but that is exactly what would be in character for these gods, slapping him down hard and nerfing his use of fate with this opportunity.
Marbas
I think this new title is a bit frustrating as a reader to see Tom become weaker for something that is seemingly not his fault. In that same vein, I think it would be good if we could see the changes to the known heretic title as well to maybe assuage that feeling a bit.
James Faulkner
Tftc!
Celas
Agreed far too extreme. Alternative any fate usage beyond 4 minutes for precondition purposes has a 90% chance of being false or something similar.
Shannon Sexton
What t6 precognition skill? What chapter can I find that?
Shannon Sexton
Tom will just need to change his fate use to will the next cast to maximise his progress in learning the spell. I think he should be more worried that he can't spam the trials to make them easier to complete. I expected Tom was not learning any earth spells to repeat his performance in Fate Points. Better for the story, but not for Tom.
Frardowin
No precog after 4min
Shannon Sexton
Corrine's anger should dissipate slower. Tom risked humanity for his feelings and one girl. I get testing precognition use of fate as it works in DCC. Tom should be kicking himself more and feel greater dread at the discordant trumpets. It is his MO. Nose bleed lacks gravitas, perhaps blinded or overwhelming sense of doom. I knew it may backfire, but I didn't know which way you were going until discordant trumpets, so that worked for me. Does not ring true to me that Tom would choose Bri to test this out on though. I don't see this Title being an issue with precognition skills as some people have said, just nerfing fates use. Tom would be spitting chips though... he is all about long term planning. I am sure that this ability had to be nerfed and addressed as its too obvious a hole otherwise. Love the story and Throm gets to say, 'I did worn you!"
Jacob
No, it still works in the Divine Champions Trial, reread Note 2
Crapgeezer
Yes this is a good point!
Jeremy Durbin
I don't think the clause would affect him in a loop. He would know but no one had told him. It should be the same as the titles that can't be earned if you know about them but he can earn them since no one had told him.
Delaney Manders
I worry that new constraint cuts off too many interesting future paths. The new title could be much less long-term detrimental and still convey the same message perfectly fine. Maybe just removing the option in the divine trial. That would both address why he thought to try it and be a significant short-term consequence while also not being constraining on future storylines.
Nimps
I knew it was a bad idea when he said he could get a free question once a day. I definitely thought the gods would nerf it, I did not however think they wouldn't give a benefit for finding a loophole though. Similar to the geas about active use of fate to learn new things I thought there would be something that blocked him but gave a benefit. Is learning new things now completely fucked too? He was using it to build the chance for perfect casts days and weeks in the future?
Frardowin
So there went his chances in the championship trial. All his enemies need to do is plan to hold off for 4 minutes and his coin flip method would fail and he would die.
Arnon Parenti
The only way for Tom to not get the title in a loop scenario is to not think about it, as the proliferation clause causes a loop paradox, he keeps going back to before acquiring the title only to immediately have it at a higher level with the only way not to have the title is having it so high it prevents the 20 fate from influencing the future, thus not having the title at all.
Adurna
Hilarious thought even if not suiting the tone well.
Arnon Parenti
Listening to the chapter again I had a very strange thought. What if the whole title reveal is his new t6 precognition skill Crushing Tom with a vision of the future and he finds himself holding the coin nose not bleeding a second before flipping it. Making our MC into a looper overlord is everything Tom needed to become the scourge of Existentia and a GOD slayer.
Ethan
Wasn't that already touched on, and the type of species they were trying to eradicate was an invasive/bad one? Chosen aint that. And didn't the slimes they messed with simply adapt to the changed environment and cause a failure for the ranking point gain or whatever? humans made it worse cause they pushed the slimes into another territory or whatever and they causing havoc. I can't entirely remember. As far as I remember, Chosen are so, so far behind on points cause they all just chilling and refusing to participate in the GOD's games, but doesnt the GOD who represents them always pick pacifist and peace loving creatures? I'm just confused about this GOD's plan and why they even participate in the games being played ha. Like MAKROS lost a bunch of games to save "points" or whatever and went balls to the wall deep on the dragons plan he has, and DEUS is warning him he's going to lose himself or whatever these GOD's do with their bets. What's the chosen dude doing? losing every game they play to the point of non-competing and being a non-factor? I guess they never really bet anything so lose nothing? just playing for shits and giggles because they like to save specific peoples. Wish there was somewhere I could go to read the lore specific to each GOD and their history haha.
Ethan
I don't think the 4 minutes is that limiting, considering that every second that goes by, he's back to 4 minutes - most situations change frequently enough that this is so much time. It's just the overall impact it has on fate usage. And I think we all need to remember, we are reading this piecemeal while Allan, I assume, has a plan for development from this point onward and it's purposeful. If we were to sit and binge this entire book and then provide feedback, it may be vastly different. Knowing Tom, he really didn't seem to care too much about the impairment to his Fate, because he already thought of ways to utalize it efficiently with the specific timer. I imagine he'll just go all hard on earned skills, as he rightly should do, to become the powerhouse humanity needs to save their entire species. He will not and does not need months of designated fate feeding to a specific scenario result or set-up, Tom can simply waltz in somewhere and change fate as he desires with all hit fate impacting traits and skills.
Adurna
Could a slight chance of wording make the balance strike home? I am thinking along the lines of " Permanent Penalty: Any fate you CHOOSE TO spend will be barred from using precognition at any time horizon greater than four minutes. As a result, your fate’s efficiency in time frames beyond four minutes will be materially nerfed." That way the intrinsic gut feeling of where to go and fate-based resistance to other's divination-based plans stays active while still limiting fate as an active long-term precognition tool. Regarding the fact that he was punished at all I think it is somewhat fair that he with his heightened scrutiny would get punished rather than it just not working.
Arnon Parenti
I still think the Chosen are the Crystal Slimes humanity tried to eradicate on previous years and stopped due to changes in the Underground, meaning they probably migrated to avoid the Humans' interference.
Arnon Parenti
I don't like what detrimental titles convey, using Blessings, as a deterrent was a lot of stretching. I would like it if there was some benefit to this title, even if only implied, creating a fate repository that has a potential to backfire or flood if not used. A Fate dam that prevents access to unused fate over longer than the 4 minutes break and turn it into some kind of Fate barrier. More fate its holding the less fate can influence the future for Tom and things become less predictable and more chaotic.. On another note. 4 minutes is very short, and leaves very little room for when Tom increases the title, which we all know he would especially if it had any benefit. I would also expect this title to negate the Gaeas against talking about fate augmentation, they are so opposed to each other that they are practically dismissing themselves. Tom knew this was going against the GODs, it negates the Gaeas, it breaks the System ranks and it trivializes too many components. But, this whole trial of Tom's hinged on his special circumstances and his hyper Godlike affinity, so it seems odd he would be so severely punished.
Tenpoundtarantula
To be honest I think it's too harsh. The 4 minute limitation and the fact that there wasn't any indication that it was forbidden means it's very harsh. I think you still achieve what you want with this (i.e. to put limits on its use) by putting a couple of provisos on the title - make the limitation time limited (i.e. make it impact fate use up to when Tom unlocks the xp store) and make it scale to a worse penalty if he tries something like it in future. in combination with the existing wording that means: Toms limited through his growing up training montage He will explicitly avoid telling people about it He will be forced to consider in future if any edge cases will affect this title And the overall impact is slightly less immediately severe (but potentially worse in the long run)
Allan Greenwood
I asked for feed back and I appreciate that you gave it. I clearly have to do some extra paragraphs at the start of the next chapter to explain things better before going on to other stuff
CherMi
Yeah, sorry if I came across as too frustrared. The chapter makes sense, Tom's in character and continues to do stuff without thinking, GODs still do whatever they please. Just not that pleasant to read it, even if the world is unfair and Tom would inevitably get a loss there. Future use of fate with a possible precognition class is the biggest issue, hope he will bypass it.
Allan Greenwood
I also had to address it because there was no way Tom wasn't going to try and extend what he was doing in the divines champion trial
Allan Greenwood
I've consistently have characters say that you can't exploit the system because the GODs would get involve but I've never shown it. Trying to use fate as a divination technique to my mind was stupid.
Keegan Moss
I think there are some issues with how it was portrayed ( I don’t think I saw any implication he was aware it went against any rules, and any hesitancy he showed sounded more about the result, not the ability). The length of time being affected seems a bit counter intuitive I feel like you could have lowered a level of known heretic ( acting against the gods, which reverses some level of the “being targeted by the gods” ) or just in general an efficiency drop in fate usage. But even then I feel like you could get around it by making your fate usage a gambling based metric of future events. “If I land on heads then it’s better to break ties with Brianna” it’s within that short time frame, but is the pseudo clairvoyance that he has used repeatedly.
CherMi
I honestly hate what happened in this chapter. The start of conversation with Corrine is extremely frustrating, Tom is communicating like a moron. He could have just explained what happened without insinuations and leading her on. Not to say it's unrealistic, I've known people like that and it's almost impossible to talk to them. The oath is stupid, but at least he realized it himself. I agreed that fate prophesies should be investigated, but then he goes and asks about Brianna. Really? After the last months (and chapters for us), he considers it possible to abandon his "little sister"? "But he had never been one to let sentimentally get in the way of the greater good." - what a joke. This reads like negative emotional growth and second reason in the chapter to slap Tom. The confusion was real and well written, but the title is bullshit in my opinion. The problem is reasoning: "You were at a conscious, or at the very least in your upper subconscious aware that this action went against the GOD’s plan for the ability." If this is how it works, I'm sure that most of humanity hates GODs for destroying their lifes on Earth. We should have seen such things all the time in fate points, because what human intends to go along with plans of GODs (especially if they're not DEUS). The penalty is way too harsh. It blocks fate prayers and potentially nerfs future oracle classes, which is huge for Tom with his precognition. Prior penalties for fate were just geas not to share, this one came out of left field. The first strike should have been just a warning of sacrilege (physical harm), maybe ban on only fate prophesies, not a lifetime restriction. If the purpose was to make us hate GODs and their system more, it succeeded. Tom deserved a slap in this chapter, but got it for the wrong reason. I doubt he'll get any lesson out of it, which is unsatisfying. Sorry for the rant. It's well written, which is why it invokes such frustration in me.
Jacob
I’m not sure it was obvious that it went against the GODS will. As the title says later, it was apparently explicitly allowed in the Divine Trial, I’m not sure it should have been obvious it wasn’t allowed outside of it. But I get the need to nerf the ability from your (the author’s) perspective.
jumbosauce
Using fate as a divination substitute might be taking it too far, but it wasn't clear to me that he needed a punishment for it. It seems like a punishment for experimentation within the system, which should be generally encouraged, right? I confess I did like the idea of using fate to sculpt future outcomes cheaply, but the punishment part felt a little much. It could just as easily be something he asks his trainer during a weekly session or Corrine, etc. But this does remove the exploit
Andrew Goudie
The title said he knew on some level that it was against the will of the gods.
Zed
It feels off that limit being placed and the resource just getting blocked. In the past it was explained that fate gets more efficient with time as it can do more with less so limiting it to that timeframe especially with how much he makes per day without any change to the function outside of the block feels unbalanced. I am hopeful that the title upgrade will fix it.
Tom Colquhoun
I think that the reveal and everything around it was fantastic. We have a protagonist who is leveraging every possible advantage, sometimes over leveraging (IE. The time stop in the previous chapter). There will be points where he fucks around and finds out. He got a fantastic, ridiculous advantage in the explosive growth trial, he fucked with the gods to his advantage prior to that. When his default setting is "abuse every opportunity", it's good to be hit with consequences.
KipBR
When he first thought of it, I thought "hey, would it really work like that? It seems like it would be outside of the scope of the ritual - they can't let him get away with that, it would be too broken. Also he is getting way too flippant about the gods, something is going to smack him down". I truly think he is usually smarter than this - I get that he is riding high on surviving the challenge, but I do really dislike how the debuff on him will play out. It eliminates a fairly large portion of his tactical planning, as well as his ability to build up to things. Maybe instead he gets either a nerf on the efficacy of fate on the future (50% or even 25% as effective), or fate cannot be built up against others? I just really think taking away his ability to devote fate over a longer period of time in order to get a perfect cast feels really really huge.
Zy
Sometimes Tom is so intelligent and others does stupid things like this, it schocks me. Maybe if he reflected that he knew the potential of backfire but the benefits where too great to not try. Otherwise it doesnt feel like tom, he is smart this was really dumb and risky just after thrat talk with corrine
George
I didn't know until his heart sank reading the title 😂 I think this is great for the story, he can stop thinking so much about how to use fate and future long term plans and *do* stuff
Ethan
Tom messed up, as Fate usage over prolonged periods is the lynch-pin of humanity at the moment. He'll simply have to find a way to supercharge his immense and effective fate pool to his limited time span, based off this chapter he isn't very concerned.. but like.. he'd be dead without this ability - my guess is he can... encourage.. Bri to stick around and use her as a fate shield to help himself, however he has this massively lopsided personality of protecting her that he likely won't. Maybe another reincarnation, Kang? could assist him on longer term missions.. But missing this long-term investment is *real bad* for his entire life. Can't shape encounters, trials, boss fights, heck even crafting a large project that would take weeks, months or years like the inventors, which Tom would have been capable of, is now off the table. He'll just have to be a lil combat whore like we all know and love, as the answer was violence all along. More earned skills, cause he has nothing else to invest into now and they require on the spot investments and watch the fate stick stack. Not even perfect cast skills/spells over time. Wondering what God chat will appear in future chapters about this. EDIT: Thinking about the GOD's some more, man they must be getting so sick of this lil pesty human lmao. Always a topic of conversation this guy. When will we see some CHOSEN get mad benefits for something they've done? I feel they get super left out. Everyone else gets talk time for their exploits or whatever, inventors, wador and the assassins ect. Whats the go with our slime overlords? they are projected to be last place with no hope of advancement - and I don't think they really care - but like.. their GOD always chooses the softies and is always in these games, so what gives :3 They gotta have some sort of impact, or it'd be 5 GOD's, not 6, cause isnt there some impact to the GOD's for winning/losing these games? thought I recall their was.
KipBR
Yay a chapter
John Anastacio
I feel that this nerf, especially so soon after Tom's achievement, is quite annoying. Couldn't he have been warned beforehand that this sorta thing would be punished?
Fisher McLaughlin
😯 the implications!
Andrew Craig
Thank you and my condolences, to you and your family.
