Emmanuel_Capricorn
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TLK Chapter : 61
🕑 Added 2025-06-30 20:34:17 +0000 UTCWarning : This is mostly filler, basically no chapter since only the end is kinda important. But I hope you still read it.
Ironically the longest chapter I've written.
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[3rd POV]
(The Joe Rogan podcast)
In Austin, Texas, the recording for a new episode of The Joe Rogan Experience was underway.
The Joe Rogan Podcast, often referred to as The Joe Rogan Experience, was the most popular podcast in the world. Known for its diverse range of guests ranging from scientists and philosophers to fighters, comedians, and survivalists, the podcast has become a cultural phenomenon. Its long-form, unfiltered conversations held a significant impact among the masses, often shaping public discourse and sparking debates across social media and news outlets alike.
On this episode, Joe was joined by Forrest Galante, a wildlife biologist, adventurer, and television host best known for tracking and rediscovering species once thought to be extinct. The two had already been deep in conversation for over an hour, diving into wild field stories, rare animal encounters, and the brutal realities of nature.
And right now, the conversation has turned into a debate. The topic being who would win in a fight. A lion or a tiger?
"I don't know dude. I think a tiger fucks up a lion every single day of the week. I mean, they are stronger, bigger, have a stronger bite force and unlike a lion where the females do all the hunting, a male tiger will actually go out and hunt its own prey," Joe Rogan said, a stubborn edge hid along his smile.
"The tiger is the real king of the jungle. It's a literal killing machine, lions don't stand a chance,"
Forest Galante mirrored the stubbornness in his otherwise friendly smile. He scratched the back of his head while thinking up a reply.
"That's....that's a classic take Joe. I get it, tigers are huge, live solitary and they have tons and tons of story that adds to their reputation. But I think in a realistic scenario where a lion and a tiger encounter each other, the tiger runs away 9 times out of 10," Forest said boldly.
He continued, "Maybe if you have a way to somehow reprogram their mind so that they will fight to the death, maybe then the tiger will win the fight. But that will not be realistic, will it. You are a fighter, you should know. It's not just about size and strength in a fight. There are other attributes such as aggression, experience and pride. People say lionheart, they never say a tigerheart."
Joe Rogan wet his lips and stared at the ceiling like he usually does when he is thinking. "That's a good point. But considering the difference in their build and the fact that a tiger hunts its own food, I think a tiger will still really fuck up a lion. I've seen a few videos where a lion and a tiger fight and in almost all of them, the tiger has an upper hand."
"A male lion can also hunt Joe," Forest said.
"I'm sure they can. I've seen them hunt buffalo and wildebeest but in those cases, they hunt them together. What I meant was that in a pride, the male will rarely go out to hunt and it is the female that does most of the hunting. The male's job is to protect the pride when another male comes to take over the pride," Joe said before leaning back in his chair.
"That is such a common misconception, dude. Such a common misconception. People really think lions are like the father who lazes around reading a newspaper and only works on very rare occasions," Forest said while shaking his head.
"I mean, is that not kind of true?" Joe asked with a raised eyebrow.
"Absolutely not. Absolutely not Joe. First of all, people assume that male lions are gifted the pride when they reach adulthood or something. That is simply not the case. In fact, most lions die or spend their whole life without ever getting a pride. A lion has to fight tooth and nail for its own pride." Forest explained.
He continued while leaning towards the microphone to make sure the whole world heard him so that the misconception could be destroyed.
"First of all, lions are kicked out of the pride when they are 18-24 months old. From then on, they have to hunt for their own food by themselves. On rare occasions, the lions will form a coalition and the group of bachelors will hunt together. But even if they have to hunt alone, they will do it. This is why the male lions are observed to be even better hunters than the females," Forest said.
"Really?" Joe said.
"Yes. They can live perfectly fine without having pride. Instead, it's actually the females who need the males. Imagine if the concept of pride never existed, the females would not stand a chance against the stronger males. They will be killed on sight, be chased out of their territories and even if they manage to have a successful hunt, a stronger male will come and steal the food. So basically, the females use the males to protect themselves from other males if that makes sense," Forest said.
"Ohh, okay. That makes sense yes," Joe said while bobbing his head up and down. Joe was the type of person who rarely feels bad when he is proven ignorant.
It was one of the main reasons why his podcast reached as far as it did. He represents the average man who is not all-knowing but has an open mind to learn new things.
"Okay, so going back to the main topic. Lions fight and they fight a lot. From the time they hit their sexual maturity, they are brawling. They fight for dominance, territory, mating rights, etc. They spend up to five or six years living and fighting until eventually they become the king of the pride. And believe me Joe, when a lion becomes king it means he is a bad motherfucker who has been in more fights than ten tigers combined. And it doesn't end there, the lion has to constantly fight off the new challenges to keep his pride," Forest said.
Joe Rogan listened carefully with narrowed eyes. He hummed and nodded in acknowledgement.
"It's why they don't hunt. What if new challengers come right when he is tired of hunting? What if he got injured from one of his hunts? The lion always has to be in perfect condition to fight. And the savannah is filled with other predators that are looking to steal the prey that they kill, most notably the hyenas. The lion is then responsible for protecting the kill from these scavengers again," Forest said and finally stopped his rant with an awkward smile.
"Hmmm.. So you think all this fighting experience will translate to a factor that will win them the fight against a tiger," Joe asked.
Forest replied, "A hundred percent. Look, the lions grow up fighting and they literally evolve to fight other lions. Even their mane are not just for looks, they evolved to have manes to protect their vital parts from bites and claws,"
"But what about the videos? We have footage of a lion fighting against a tiger," Joe asked once more. This time he had a sly smile as if to say, 'Got you on that one,'
"Probably those lions are in captivity or they are lion males that do not have the experience, which I said will give them an edge in a fight with a tiger. I'm talking about lion kings here." Forest said with a nod.
Joe Rogan mirrored the nob, but before he could say anything else, Forest continued.
"And regardless of that context, the videos you mentioned are too short. They are only brief confrontations. Lions will have the edge when it comes to a drawn-out fight to the death. They have better endurance when it comes to fighting and they will be much harder to kill and damage the vitals. The tiger probably just goes full force at the beginning of the fight like an untrained fighter whereas the lion has been in fights and knows the importance of conserving energy, And as the fight stretches, the lion will have much better chances than the tiger," Forest said.
"Hmmmmm...okay, so you think that a lion will fuck up a tiger," Joe asked to summarise all his rant.
"I.....I do not think that either one will fuck up each other. It will be a close fight, but I think lions in a realistic encounter and condition will win over the tigers." Forest said, fianlzing his standpoint and opinion.
"Hmmmm...definitely. I think that too after everything that you said. But opposite to you, I think tigers will still have the upper hand," Joe said with his signature grin.
Forest shrugged with a grin of his own, "Fair enough."
"Now speaking of lions and tigers. Why do you think one is called the king of the jungle and the other is not? I mean, do lions even live in the jungle?" Joe asked again.
"Well, the saying that lions are the king of the jungle goes waaaaay back. When we say this term today, we think of modern lions but that is just not the case. For example, lions are already considered the king of animals and associated with power and nobility as early as 3000 BCE in the Mesopotamian civilisation," Forest said.
Joe Rogan hummed to indicate that he was intrigued and listening closely.
"And we have to know that during those times, lions did live in the jungle. Well they still do even now, at least some of them. And the lions that live in these jungles are also much bigger than even the African lions. There is also the fact that lions during that time were much bigger. For example, the Barbary lions went extinct, I think in 1950, something? And they were much, much bigger than their African counterpart. There are also the Cape lions, Cave lions etc, all bigger than modern lions," Forest said.
"So the lions during those times will actually beat the tigers of today even in size and power," Joe asked, returning back to the topic that Forest thought they had left behind.
"I don't know. Considering that tigers have not shrunk as much as lions did over the centuries, maybe yes. But at the very least, the lions back then would have been equal to today's tigers," Forest said.
"Okay," Joe said and folded his arms.
"So I guess what I am saying is that the saying is not wrong by all means. It is not some propaganda spread by people who like lions. The saying was true during their time, but has been getting outdated with the dying of certain lion species," Forest said.
"Hmmmm... I see. I also understand why people will look at lions and consider them the king of the jungle. I mean, they are majestic with their mane and the pride that they rule over. The solitary tiger can not compare to the sight of this noble beast overseeing the whole territory with its females and cubs, ruling over the land and all," Joe said.
"Yeah, yes," Forest nodded in agreement.
"But the tigers are also majestic and beautiful in their own way. They are nature's perfect killing machine. If lions are king, then the tigers are badass assassins, you know," Joe added.
"Also true, yes," Forest said.
The two of them leaned back in their own chair. Forest took the water from the table and took in huge gulps to quench his dry throat. After seemingly coming to an end to the debate, they were ready to start another conversation.
Joe, as the host, was the first to start another conversation.
"Okay since we are already in the lion and size territory, I wanna ask you a question,"
"Go on," Forest said while closing the cap of the water bottle and setting it back on the table.
"Did you ever hear about that place in Africa where the river broke off in a different direction and made this area an island? They said the lions that live there only had the buffalos to eat and hunt. So the lions have grown much bigger and stronger than other lions. Some of the female lions are as big as the average male lions in other areas. Have you ever heard about this place?" Joe asked.
"Uhh yes... I think the island is called the Duba island. And yes, like you mentioned the lions there have grown bigger and developed more muscles over the years to adapt to their environment," Forest said and then continued.
"I think they even changed their whole hunting style and strategy. They would hunt for hours in order to bring the buffalo down and attack it during the day in the swamps and all that," he said with a nod.
"Isn't that crazy?" Joe asked with an expectant smile.
"Yah, yeah. Definitely, definitely amazing," Forest said, trying but failing spectacularly to act impressed.
Joe hummed, his smile faded and he tilted his head curiously. "What's with that reaction? You don't think that it's incredible that these animals can grow so strong and adapt to their environment?"
"Oh definitely. Don't get me wrong, it's mind-blowing. But the Doba Island have been known for a while now. I think they even made a documentary about it called, 'Relentless Enemies'. It's a known thing, not enough to blow my mind considering the mind-shattering discoveries we made recently," Forest said.
Joe immediately smelled the hidden message, "Mind-shattering discovery recently? What's that about?"
"Well...." Fores began with a smile on his face. It was the kind of smile that was holding back a lot of excitement.
"It's similar to the Doba Island case but on steroids. It involved a buffalo too recently, its- its ridiculous to be honest," Fores said.
"So what's holding you back? Come on, tell me," Joe probed, excited.
"I am not completely sure whether they would like me to share about this in front of the whole world," Forest said.
"Oh," that was the only word that left Joe's mouth but his face said a lot. He needed to know what all of this was about. As much as he needed to talk about bears in every podcast.
"Wait...wait... let me," Forest said and took out his phone and started typing some things on it.
Joe waited patiently for a while as Forest made a phone call after sending what looked like multiple messages.
Forest left the table to talk on the phone. The secretive nature of the news made Joe even more excited about what Forest had to say.
What was this discovery that he spoke of and why was it so important?
"Jamie, what do you think?" he asked with a smile.
"You think it's some kind of discovery? A discovery of a lion species thought to be extinct?" he asked and the two talked for a while.
And then after a few minutes, Forest returned and he did so with a wide smile on his face. That spelt good news for Joe and the rest of the world.
"Well?" Joe asked.
"They said it's okay. And they even sent me some pictures and footage that I can show you," Forest said, his chill guy vibe breaking to make way for an excited fanboy kid.
He passed the phone to Jamie who connected the phone to the big screen in the studio before passing it back to Forest.
"A few months ago a friend of mine, who is a cameraman for a research team in Serengeti, called me up to talk about this new lion that they discovered recently. Basically, they wanted to know if the lion has ancient DNA in him, like a barbary lion or a cave lion," Fores started while fiddling on his phone and searching for the best picture to show to Joe Rogan and the world
"So the researchers in the Serengeti discovered this lion seven months ago. They called him Leo, and I'm not gonna say anything more. Just look at this image," Forest said and made a final tap on his phone before he looked towards the big screen.
Joe, Jamie, and even the staff who worked on the set all looked towards the screen. The moment the image came up, you could hear a collective gasp from every single person in the studio.
Joe Rogan made the face. His eyes were wind and his eyebrows nearly shot off his bald head. His mouth was agape to make a surprised girly sound.
It was an expression he made only when people talked about gigantic bears like polar bears or Kodiak bears.
"What in the fuck is that thing," was his only words.
But they were the only words needed by the entire studio.
..
..
[Important Notice : The timeline of this podcast is the same as the main one. Meaning it's not like the documentary that took place 10 years later. This podcast happened right after Leo took down the Buffalo]
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Author : The end was supposed to be the beginning of this chapter but I got lost. At first, I just wanted to start the chapter naturally as if Leo was brought up in the middle of the conversation but Lion vs Tiger really fucking interested me.
So I took that chance to shamelessly display my bias and opinion. No one read my comments on YouTube shorts so you are now forced to read it. Sorry.
Do tell me your thoughts on Lion vs Tigers though. Who wins?
Lion wins and I will die on that hill.
