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Chapter 75: A Dangerous Class

🕑 Added 2024-04-07 14:00:11 +0000 UTC

Comments

Justin Golenbock

This is a really disgusting abuse of power. Are we supposed to believe this of Vivian? It’s like the author expects us to kinda sympathize with her point of view but this is the mental equivalent of torture, as bad as what we’d expect from the corrupt Guard. Completely lost all respect for her as a character, if were to believe this is a story with consequences for your actions there damn better be some consequences for her.

Arkeus

I really hope we aren't supposed to by that a cheap potion can take care of someone who was level 500+ three thousand years ago and survived dozens of continent spanning wars and tens of thousands of third tier assassins since then. Lyra was supposedly strong enough the lol was fully confident in her ability to beat back the blind lich back then, and we know the dad likely had level 300 on a domain combat class and couldn't be a speedbump... And the mom knew it. Even under the weird assumption she isn't a combat class (?????) she still survived since then and the difference in levels is such that a sleeping level 100 noncombat can have the whole gang spamming attacks at them and not notice . It's been pretty clear that armour and stats scale /hard/ and the difference between combat and noncombat just can't breach 'do nothing'

Zxypper

I lost a lot of possible sympathy I could’ve had for Vivian and Mieriel because what they did kind of seemed like torture. this chapter kind of reminded me of a story I heard of. this guy was going to the doctor to have surgery performed on him but when they gave him the drugs to fall asleep they somehow messed up. The guy was awake the entire operation just unable to move but also still able to feel everything so while they operated on him, he was in excruciating pain just unable to vocalize that. so when they finally finish the surgery and he was awoken, the experience had been so harrowing that he felt like he can no longer function, so the doctor gave him some drugs to help him forget the experience and he did forget about it but he was never the same afterwards and so the man ended up committing suicide and after this his family went on to sue the hospital. Now I don’t know how painful or torturous this mind magic interrogation ended up being but I feel like it would still leave Some kind of mental scar even if you did forget about it. I’d also like to clarify I liked the chapter but it made me feel uncomfortable Mainly because ali’s interrogation went un-described letting me imagine it for myself

Looting Pillager

I like the fact she is in a bad situation because of her magic being pretty much nightmare fuel, but she is really just a normal kind of person so far.

FauxPraetor

I like the inclusion of a not-necessarily-villainous Mind Mage, really. Though it does seem like she and Vivian are opening themselves up for a lot of misinterpretation there with how they handled it.

Looting Pillager

I think it is the druid woman we have already met.

ALEXEI

Side note to the rest of the chapter I really hope who I am assuming is her druid Aunt and Probly last living family member isn't irreversibly corrupted or killed that would be a bummer. Not a deal breaker just depressing.

Rip Woodham

Yep I'm sure I don't need to explain it but I think it's much more palatable when things come about as a consequence of our actions that we can see, like ripples in a pond, than as a piece just waiting to be picked up by them or a major event just happening to occur at the same time, etc. I think Vivian's 'attitude' is fine. I understand her emotional baggage and some of the only context she is aware of for dungeons and that it's not just her view of dungeons but the reality that is apparent to everyone on a visceral level. I just think she should have a little more going on in her head since we get her perspective it shouldn't be so singularly narrow minded. Especially in the face of Ali's group and the recounting she got. It's like everything she has personally observed of Ali and her group is out the window and everything about Ali's story, Dalmohra, Blind Lich, Guardians of the Realm, etc went in one ear and out the other and she's just a stupid dog worrying at the dungeon bone. I'm not saying her mind should be changed or shaken easily but everyone has more going on in their head than that and it just makes her seem unreasonably simple. Just my thoughts. :) Well my opinion about the murder hoboing isn't limited to Roderik and my opinion of Roderik isn't limited to the nobility. It does seem like if someone obviously evil or even just someone with no moral scruples can get away with what he is on a regular basis and these aren't exceptions for him or the setting, either just because of high level or nobility or both, then there would just be chaos and no order. The setting so far is: high level bad guy with nobility goes around casually murder hoboing, and oh he's part of the dastardly shadow council, the town militia is actually the town gang that beats and fleeces its citizens, its leader can get away with anything because he's strong... and you've got people living normally, a normal economy, governance, etc. The mayor is some weak guy with actual morals and principles and it's like... how? The dichotomy is too much. Structure should be so far undermined it's like how does it exist? As itself or in the face of other more robust structures (nations, power blocs, etc) that would subsume it? ... Just where one reader's mind is at. ;)

Adrian Secchia

This is great feedback too, thank you. I struggle to imagine how the chapter will land to a fresh set of eyes after I've spent so much time figuring it out. Well considered and thought out feedback like yours and the one above are so critical for me, and on RR it's hard for me to really dig into the discussions without influencing the direction too much. People seem to just shut up when I say anything. I do run a few more POVs from the bad guy, but I agree with your perspective on keeping them short and to a minimum - I just hope I've struck a good balance. I'll have to keep an eye on the coincidental timing - I can see how that will strain immersion if its too perfect / obvious. I think that's really solid feedback on Vivian and Mieriel in particular. I hope Vivian's attitude becomes a little clearer as we go - or at least a little more convincing. I didn't want 'noble=bad' as a trope in this story, so your perception of this scene is a bit of a warning sign for me. I wanted Roderik to come across as an outlier - he's a clear villain, but it isn't his nobility that's the reason. So the way you're seeing it makes me realize that isn't coming across how I wanted it. Again, thanks so much for sharing how you're experiencing the story!

Rip Woodham

So I really like some things about this chapter. I like that we're finally no longer dancing around and putting off the issue and misunderstandings. It seemed like it was taking too long for Vivian to connect at least some dots regarding the dungeons under the town and Ali, so I'm glad to see that getting addressed. I like the response of our group to the mind control. As intelligent, well reasoned and immediate as could be expected. I liked getting Vivian and Mieriel's perspectives. I don't like getting the "bad guy" perspectives but that's just me. At least it was short. I think the "coincidental" timing can be getting a bit much for believability. First was Thuli. Really beneficial and low odds of that timing but sure. And if you look back well that dungeon break was the perfect time for our main characters to shine too, etc... Just think gotta be careful about how many things "fall into place" for the story. These things are more acceptable in wholesome stories but when you get into dark stuff like this and geopolitics etc... Vivian's reaction is a bit too simple and over the top imo. I know how crazy it is... but then, shouldn't she have a thought for how crazy it is? And not just simplemindedness bent on the evil dungeon's destruction? I understand she has a ton of emotional baggage here. But I don't like how someone normally portrayed as sharp, intuitive, well traveled and experienced... is portrayed as basically I would expect a cardinal raised entirely in the church fully believing all the dogma would react. I get that there is a lot there for where Vivian is coming from. But it just seems too entirely narrow minded. I think she needs to have some doubt she is actively banishing about how she is acting. A bit of dilemma, just a bit. And some part of her mind, even if a small part, considering the *implications* of this revelation. Mieriel... I'm not sure how the central authority in the kingdom would allow someone like her class to be unaffiliated with them? I had thought before she actually was because it would be so unusual for them to not 'control her or else.' Maybe Vivian has vouched for her and taken responsibility and the authority obliged for reasons? Be nice to have that reasoned out. Lastly this... wanton slaughter without consequence. I don't think just being a noble is enough. And I thought one town was an exception. That the central authority of the kingdom already had an eye on through Mieriel and Vivian. But if that's not the case, I don't understand. I don't understand how a kingdom, economy, people etc function as we'd expect in a usual setting with free reign murder hoboing going on. Even if Roderik is somehow a special exception, and everyone else doing it in the story. It's not just about law and order, perception and morale, prosperity and security... It seems like the whole shape of everything would be different in such a society. And so far all that looks pretty traditional. Oh, one more thing... I really hope there's a good explanation for why the Blind Lich who so casually conquered Dalmohra 3000 years ago is still just sort of... this patient villain in the shadows? And has this secret cult that easily operates? :\ So yeah... a few concerns lol.

Adrian Secchia

Ok, this is really interesting feedback. Thank you. I was expecting pushback on the interrogation scene, but your experience went a completely different direction :) I can explain what I was intending, but its clear that it doesn't come across the way I expected, so I will have to think about how or what I want to tweak in here. The reason I designed characters like Lirasia and Lydia was to show the value and vulnerability of narrow specialization. If a class reaches a high level, but every skill and ability is in non-combat tailoring, then they are still super vulnerable to someone with a sword and skills to back it up. Lirasia has a non-combat class which is powerful when she is supported by her forest domain - but if she's stripped of that (by some well planned deception), she is very weak. I guess I didn't realize how much the level gap would contribute to making that feel unbelievable. The reason I had them start with Calen is because Calen is the one with the Explorer skill that can identify dungeons. Vivian is aware of this, but I don't make that clear in this chapter. So I'm guessing it comes across more like 'author wanted it to go this way so it did' instead of a believable reason from the perspective of the characters?

Looting Pillager

So some of this chapter is a bit of a mess. 1. A thousand gold for a potion that can work on someone level 300? Ali was making gold for normal summoned arrows. This price is ludicrously low. 2. The low price above was lowered to 100 so ice guy can murder the village? Why would someone have to give him permission? Adrik and Edrik were able to beat and kill shop owners in the middle of a fairly populous town without repercussions and their boss can't just go out and get his murder on without permission? Doesn't make sense on almost every level. 3. How would a guy whose strongest monsters are trolls leveled in their 50's going to do anything to someone level 300. A level 300 tailor could probably turn him into a coat with a snap of their fingers. The difference in power from say 250 to 300 is probably greater than the difference between 250 and 1. At least the experience and skills to that level would almost need to be. I am not sure I think the leveling in this series matters much when 100 plus levels difference is a gap a single potion can overcome. 4. Why did the spy and guild master interview Calen at all? They have the ability to read Ali's mind they do not need to involve anyone else but they do. Not sure I understand except it let's the spy use her abilities on him so you can skip Ali's interrogation entirely. I think there needs to be a better reason than that.


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