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December 4 Update (Crimson Gray: Yandere Maker)
🕑 Added 2022-12-04 17:59:31 +0000 UTCBefore your regularly scheduled post, we have a little surprise! Today is actually the first Sunday of Lustmas... the glorious season in which Simon Claus goes around the world delivering "presents" to all the good succubi. Thanks to patron Argo the Ratfolk and Annikath, you'll be getting some lovely themed art every weekend leading up to Christmas!
Once you've enjoyed that, we have our next pre-planned post about some other work I did this year.
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Alright, it's time to talk about one of the side projects I hinted earlier. As long term patrons will remember, I had some personal issues earlier this year and spent a while on minor projects to try to creatively refresh myself.
I had a fantasy that I was going to 99% finish a game, then I could say "I may have struggled to work on TLS, but at least I have this for everyone." That wasn't to be. My fantasy downgraded to presenting a complete section of the game, but that hasn't occurred either.
To be clear, I could have finished that section, or perhaps the entire game, but that would have required sacrificing significant TLS development time. So the project, and the work I did on it, has languished. I'm still passionate about the core idea, though, so I wanted to get into some detail now. Some of you have been waiting for this; sorry for delays.
Heads up, this post will be long on text/ideas, short on graphic design.
This would be an unusual entry in the Crimson Gray series, roughly 2.5 as far as the timeline goes. The premise is that you play as Lizzie and John* raising their daughter. As the title suggests, it tries to hit the same genre as Princess Maker, and it also takes inspiration from Long Live the Queen. I thought then and still think that this idea has some nice potential.
*I've toyed with the idea of having a story mode as well as a "free mode" where you make generic parents. The benefit of this would be that the first mode could be more story-heavy and have more sophisticated consequences, while the latter could have wilder outcomes. I was thinking all this during my most ambitious phase, though, so I don't know if this is feasible.
For those who don't know but are still reading, in the Crimson Gray setting, there are individuals with exotic psychological profiles, in this case resembling yandere. The central child of this game inherits Lizzie's condition epigenetically, which means she has many sociopathic traits and the potential for great violence. But, if raised well, she could end up mentally healthier than Lizzie.
So basically, every period of time you would decide what traits/stats/skills you want the daughter character to focus on. In addition to practical skills and school subjects, there are also psychological traits like mental stability. Events happen after that phase and their outcomes, both direct consequences and choices available, depend on what you've prioritized. An event were kids make fun of your yandere at school could go down very different paths depending on her sanity and skill with pointed objects.
Comparisons
A few things regarding similar games. I've tried to innovate a little based on my design thoughts, but of course this would require iteration and refinement if I want to get close to the polish of similar games. Still, I have some thoughts.
The Princess Maker series is generally more open-ended than I intend. You'll be able to create different sorts of yanderes, from socialites to killers, but they'll have to face similar challenges. To be clear, I don't intend to include any of the creepy elements from this series. No "Buxomize Pill" or marrying your daughter.
Long Live the Queen is another major reference point. This one has a style of branching and inherent mathematical complexity that I'm not sure I'll be able to match. However, I hope my design can avoid the feeling that there's no way to know what will be useful ahead of time. Different sections of the game and plot will have clear goals and I'm trying to offer multiple rational solutions to every challenge. No naval battles where the Naval Strategy skill is useless but Climbing is essential.
As I said, this is going to require refinement. Not only have I not done this sort of game design much before, it isn't that common anywhere. Based on the sections I finished, however, I hope that the result can eventually become a worthwhile entry to this under-served niche. That's why I hope to get lots of feedback eventually, especially from those who enjoy these games.
Basic Gameplay
The story plays out month-to-month from a year before your yandere enters school to the end of high school. I hope to hit a balance of abstraction and realism: you won't be able to just ignore school subjects entirely, for example, or you'll fail.
Mathematically this means a lot of different steps. One thing that I hope will both keep the game fresh and give a sense of progression is that I want to divide the game into four different phases: pre-school, elementary school, middle school, and high school. Ideally each will have a somewhat different focus and feel.
The pre-school phase is actually completely done, but it's basically a tutorial. Essentially you go through a linear set of events and make choices to prepare for your yandere's entrance to school. Once she enters elementary, however, things shift. You'll have more freedom to pursue a number of different subplots that will change how the final elementary events play out.
I need to do some conceptual work on the later parts of this, actually. I have a clear idea for the high school phase, as it's the finale, but I don't have ideas I like for making the middle school section feel distinct. It's probably premature to discuss that, though, so let's talk about our central yandere.
I know there's some "dress up game" appeal to these, but that doesn't really interest me. Instead, I would like for your decisions to have a visible impact on your yandere's development. The above is an example that Annikath helped me with, but it's only illustrative, not representative of a full "evolution system". I would like different pieces to respond modularly, so you can end up with many unique combinations depending on interests, skills, and past decisions.
Still, I hope this communicates at least a little. The shift from pre-school to elementary isn't huge, because the player hasn't made many choices, but there are already minor differences between composed yanderes and those that are wilder. In middle and high school, your yandere can get into different subcultures and otherwise develop further.
There's a serious risk of combinatorial explosion, but I hope that spreading this across various systems will give the player some freedom and increase replayability. One thing I haven't touched on at all is that there will be some other characters as well, to respond to character development in various ways, but it's probably too early to introduce any of them.
Conclusion
That's the game concept, anyway! I'm not talking about it because I intend to put more time into it now (in fact, aside from this post I don't intend to touch it), but I felt like patrons were owed an explanation of one of the things I was working on earlier this year.
It's too early to discuss the game in depth, but now and especially later I welcome feedback, thoughts, and questions from patrons interested in this sort of thing. I'll need to iterate on this one, but ideas that enter early in the process can have a bigger impact.
That is all for now. Numbers post next week!
Comments
This game idea is really cool!
Sierra Lee
Yeah, this can all be revisited later. If the first playable build includes all of the elementary section, that will be the time to both revise mechanisms and to consider how they should evolve in the next part. The issues you brought up are perfectly suited to this section, sure. Some of them are already baked in: Lizzie definitely thinks her daughter needs certain weapon skills, and the premise of the pre-school section is that she needs emotional/mental skills. Hobbies are all integrated into the stats system... but come to think of it, that could be an interesting take on things for middle school. As parents you'd have the option of signing her up for various things, which would necessitate investing months in those activities. A programs-focused section might be a good break between the social sections. Sharing passions is something I have ideas for in this setting, but I don't know how much they'll end up in this game. I actually have very specific plans that video games will go the other way: one of Lizzie's daughters will introduce her to them, and due to the graphical improvements since Lizzie saw John play games in college, Lizzie is VERY interested in digital murder. That scene was not there for random humor, haha.
Grim8P
Thanks for the detailed answer! This definitely sounds very interesting to me. I will look forward to it. =D > Due to plot events, your daughter's middle school is more private and does not include so many social decisions. As I mentioned, I'm not very sure about this part. This sounds like something I'd be interested in providing more feedback on but I'd need more information to do so meaningfully. This is obviously a later problem though. > But I welcome input from people on this! What sorts of things are you considering here? I keep coming back to a discussion my wife and I are having on and off about how to handle Santa's existence. Being honest could lead to issues with other children and also loses out on the "magic of Christmas" as a very concise version of our discussion. We've also talked a lot about: - How to handle household chores and responsibility in general. - Putting children into social situations like sports teams or art/music/dance related groups. - Having general life skills like knowing how to swim or ride a bike. A more high school relevant skill might be learning to drive (and having access to a car). - Sharing our own passions, like video games for me. But I'm unsure if any of this hits on what you're looking for.
Sierra Lee
I'll welcome your feedback then! Getting this sort of game to feel right will definitely require a lot of input from players with different backgrounds and playstyles.
Arramos
Honestly, this sounds like a really promising idea. I got both Princess Maker games and Long Live the Queen awhile back, and I really like the game style, but I never finished any of them because progressing required bizarre choices that made no sense to me. If or when you decide to pick up this project again, I'll be happy to offer what feedback I can!
fuck yeah! more Lizzie!
Markus S.
I'd hype a Yandere Maker like game. Additionally to the named games I had also liked Slave Maker 3 which had quite a few nice ideas. Different boni for estate, assistant, some exploring features (similar like later Prince Maker games had). But I'd smell a shitload of work there, both in sense that a lot of script would not be available in a single play through and giving different paths a sense of meaningful choice. Also it sounds like such a game which would players expect a complex paper-doll system and lots of micro graphics.
Sierra Lee
I hope to be able to push the subtle details pretty far, but I suspect that aspect will take several rounds to reach its full potential. So comments and suggestions on that aspect will be welcome, once there are actual builds out! One of my main goals was to have a little more focus rather than playing blind. Hopefully I'll be able to strike a balance of expected results and positive surprises.
Tim
I really enjoy games along the Long live the queen Genre, and I think it would play well into your storytelling abilities as well as being a fun way to explore more of the crimson gray universe. My favorite part of these game is seeing how your stat building can affect the little details around your character or the people they interact with. I think the subtle details like outfit design, different dialog or facial expressions when interacting are really fun. My least favorite part of games like this is when you have no idea what the purpose/outcome of your choices is going to be. Obviously you won't know exactly what's coming, but it's frustrating when I expect studying more will make me smarter and instead there's never any situation to use my grades and my character get bullied for being a nerd. I don't think that will be a problem for you though, since you've already spoken about avoiding that issue. Thanks for the update!
Sierra Lee
There should be some of that, and I hope it's an element that can improve over iterations. My general design goal is to have fewer roundabout solutions, but quite a few unexpected developments when players take different paths. I heard about that one when the author approached me for cross-promotion. Perhaps I'll take a look and see if I can't learn something from it.
Sierra Lee
I don't want to release the tutorial alone because I feel it isn't enough; the game with the full elementary school segment would be a much better vertical slice of what I'm hoping to accomplish. But asking about stuff isn't a problem at all! Accessibility was definitely on my mind. Consider it guaranteed that there will be a story-focused mode featuring Lizzie and John, but I could potentially do the other mode as well,. In the current design, the player chooses their daughter's stat/skill focus month to month, then many events have more unique decisions. I hope that will allow the game to address a wide variety of different issues without having curfew or something similar be a constant mechanic. But I welcome input from people on this! For elementary school, there are some events that always happen on certain dates (like special summer events, or certain other plot-type happenings). However, the majority of available events are in their own separate storylines centered around friends your daughter can potentially make in school. Due to how the event requirements work, it is not possible to pursue them all, so the intention is for players to choose one or two each time and specialize. None of these relationships start easily, given your daughter's condition, but they can have an impact on her development. She could become friends with the athletic tomboy and get higher physical stats and some more socialization, or hang out with the "weird girl" with potentially varying mental effects. I also have written (and intend to write more) events for certain combinations of friends, ignoring everyone, or having lesser relationships with everyone. Due to plot events, your daughter's middle school is more private and does not include so many social decisions. As I mentioned, I'm not very sure about this part. In high school, the social element returns but with a heavy side of consequences. Characters your daughter may or may not have met as children are teens now and struggling to find themselves in a different sort of way. There are clubs and cliques and other more group-oriented events. Basically, this is meant to be the phase of the game where things can go in very different directions based on your choices.
Sierra Lee
Haha, the game ends after high school, but there's certainty some flavoring of these decisions.
Runcible Technician
Ha! It's nice to see Altina having some fun. I've been looking forward to another Crimson Gray project since forever. I can wait another forever if I need to.
aby
Yay! I remember suggesting something in the veins of Long Live the Queen quite a while back when you were discussing ideas for future projects, so these are some really exciting news. I will wait until it is a better time to inquire about more in-depth stuff, but I do want to share one thought in particular. When playing Long Live the Queen and other similar games, most of the fun I had did not come just from reaching a goal I had set for myself by managing to build the necessary stats, but also from experiencing and uncovering story developments that were more of a "byproduct" of the route I was taking towards my goal. Seeing how the story transforms in unexpected ways as I replay the game with a different build to seek a different solution to a late-game problem is a blast, and I find it amusing when I discover the optimal way of reaching certain goals involves approaching it in oddly roundabout ways (e.g, fastest way to unlock the Lumen crystal in LLtQ is to study economics of all things). Also, since you brought up the matter of visual development of the main character, combinatorial explosion, and characters that react to your developments, I do feel I should mention an adult game called "Good Girl Gone Bad". I don't think you'd find it terribly interesting as per last week's post, since it is closer to a VN (stat building is done simply through choices presented in a continuous story) and thematically the story is more "regular life" stuff, but the game achieved very well the experience of different choices gradually and subtly leading to different and unique outcomes. It also dealt with the combinatorial explosion of such a design pretty well, it had an interesting modular approach to a great number of the game's features, such as an outfit system similar to the one you proposed (at fixed story points, reflecting certain stats). It is not a perfect game or anything like that, and it definitely struggled a bit to keep things polished and cohesive in the later parts of the game, but could be worth checking out if you want to see how some other games approached a similar challenge to the one you're anticipating with this game. Once more, pretty excited for this game, happy to see Lustmas season starting strong!
Grim8P
I am very interested in more content in the Crimson Gray universe. For this reason I think I'd find it more appealing if the parents were John and Lizzie, although for that reason, people who haven't played the other games may find it less accessible even if only in their minds. The idea of a Crimson Gray: Yandere Maker amuses me greatly. I've spent a lot of time talking with my wife about how we want to raise our child when they're older, so I'm very interested in the sorts of things you'll give the player control over. > One thing that I hope will both keep the game fresh and give a sense of progression is that I want to divide the game into four different phases: pre-school, elementary school, middle school, and high school. Ideally each will have a somewhat different focus and feel. I'd be interested in anything you're willing and able to elaborate on for the different phases, even if only at a higher level. I'm only somewhat familiar with the games you mentioned as inspiration. However, with > It's probably premature to discuss that, though, so let's talk about our central yandere. and > It's too early to discuss the game in depth... I understand if it's better to just wait patiently. Perhaps an easier question would be that if you largely have the tutorial done, is getting that out to patrons for feedback something that's on your mind, even if having the bandwidth to do so is potentially a ways away, or would you not find it worth it until more of the first section with more player freedom is also complete?
Nathan Phoenix
Psychopath Raiser could have a lot of potential story paths. Would you fight against it and try to teach her humanity or teach her to harness it and become the next cut-throat C.E.O.
Sierra Lee
It won't be exactly like LLtQ, of course, but I hope to be able to polish this concept so it can appeal to the group that enjoyed it. I can't say for sure about future VNs. I've considered, after TLS is complete, just taking a while to make CG2 and CG3 regardless of other concerns.
Sierra Lee
Everything's coded for a custom name. Lizzie and John do canonically have two children with specific names, but I figured giving the player freedom would be good in this case.
Sean Condon
I love the Yandere maker idea!!
Dmitry F
Hearing that long live the queen is a point of inspiration is very good news to me. I am fond of that game and Crimson Grey/1.5. I hope in the future, we do eventually get more content with them since I've eagerly awaited more news regarding your previous tentative ideas long ago regarding CG2 or otherwise.
ushiroace
Such a cute idea! Also I love the design for the second high school yandere. Is the idea that the player will name her, or have you not decided on a name yet? Oh, also love the TLS art. Lots of good stuff this post
