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POD 119: Day 4 dispatch from DEA HQ

🕑 Added 2024-11-18 08:42:12 +0000 UTC

Comments

simone

It's true that it should be streamed but I must say maybe hearing it from you makes it less boring and mor e digestible maybe

Michael McCallum

That phone alarm thing was either some NSA PEGASUS type shit at work, never heard of that happening with iPhones lol. Not tryna make you paranoid but ahhh 😱 🤣

Skogel

Read the whole book "Millbrook" at https://okneoac.org/millbrook. The raid/bust is discussed in Chapter 41. Kleps is a first class storyteller!

Michael McCallum

Does it have to do with the Millbrook Estate? Wasn’t that where those local cops were desperate for any sort of bust relating to LSD and finally got a warrant based on nudity displayed through a window? I remember reading about a Millbrook and the Millbrook Estate in Acid Dreams, what I mentioned above might be off though. It’s been a very fried 5 years or so since I read that one.

Leila Taylor

Mr Hamilton Morris, this series of Patreon posts might be the most insane thing I have ever listened to, I literally don't know what to think.

Adam Wall

The description of Dr Nichols has me in stitches

Fredrik Haglund

I'm having reccuring hallucinations of Colonel Kurtz saying "The absurdity, the absurdity..." Is to call the hearing Kafkaesque an understatement?

Evan O'Hara

When did the hearings actually conclude? I'm having trouble find clear information on when the last day was, because based on this podcast it sounded like there was at least another day of testimony.

gossamer

“DOI yi yi” haha, Steve, I damn near choked on my morning coffee!

Skogel

How many know of this account, by Art Kleps in "Millbrook", of his testimony before the Senate, as they held hearings to make LSD illegal in 1964? Also included is Tim Leary's contribution. It's in chapters 14 and 15. https://okneoac.org/millbrook/ch14

Jessica Nielson

https://www.dea.gov/

Stephanie Schaefer

👏👏👏

Stephanie Schaefer

Check out his episodes about the rejection of the MDMA study, that will tell you who they are.

Liliana Hopkins

Your depiction of this courtroom drama rivals the eloquence of the brothers Karamazov and the entertainment value of better call Saul 😎 amazing job Hamilton!

IsadorJS

Thanks for your advice. Is this accessible to non-US followers? Where would I register?

ogon bio

Me 2

vermontsaab

i've been checking back for a new episode several times a day :) amazing reporting.

Steven

Your description of Dr Dave is so classic..."refulgence" - great word. I'm so glad he brought up his son Charle's research...I mean what better example of positive uses of DOI? And Mr Mann the man....gosh, another classic, wow...DOI yi yi baby! Thanks again for attending this meeting Hamliton, and it'd be of interest to read transcripts of other hearings...they must be part of the public record somewhere. As I mentioned, there might be videos of such hearings in the archives of public television stations...lemme contact KQED, they've been helpful before...cheers

Jeff

Ohhhhh but they can be, they absolutely can and seem to be, sad huh 😒.

ErikwithaK

Saying this is your wheelhouse is an understatement! I'm glad you were there and I laughed so many times in these 4 parts... Plus this is so epic to openly speak clarity to what you saw. Crushed it dude 😎

Jessica Nielson

If you register for their alerts, they send out emails (like a newsletter) of different actions that are open to the public.

Loke Guiks

+1 really enjoying the court reporting Hamilton. Keep it up!

Paul

Remember it's all an act, if he seems panicked or overwhelmed he'll loose credibility. Or maybe he just doesn't realize the monument that Nichols is and how he will not be able to push the DEA's narrative against him hahaha both seems plausible to me

Samantha Firoze Sethna

Seconded

Samantha Firoze Sethna

Did he though? He sounds... numb

slunkd

Hamilton, your court reporting is fantastically interesting and hearing you describe anything is unduly entertaining.

Samantha Firoze Sethna

The level of insufferable some of the people shaping this hearing are totally comfortable being is hilarious. They can't be that oblivious

IsadorJS

I have looked on the DEA website and there is no mention of this hearing. The only reportage other than Hamilton’s is from a website called Benzinga. Why would DEA not make this accessible to the public?

Jim See

I am loving this daily reporting Hamilton! Truly appreciate the work that you do. It is really rather insane to hear about the idiocy of a government agency that holds so much power. Not really sure how to even process some of this information! 😅 Keep up the great work Hamilton!!

Joe Hennessey

And I will not let them win!!

Samantha Firoze Sethna

Thanks for doing this, Hamilton. Please rest well, take good care, and have a lot of fun.

Alaina Jaster

Another journalist Jack Gorsline was there, also I run my own podcast Psychedelic Brain Science & am dropping a full recap on the events this Friday/saturday! We weren’t allowed to discuss testimony until the hearing was over.

Thomas Child

https://psychedelicreview.com/organization/eleusis-benefit-corporation/ One is eleusis, Charles Nichol's startup

Jessica Nielson

Would love to chat about doing schedule 1 clinical research and the process for getting a license and initiating a trial. I previously did this as a PI for a psilocybin study (doing that myself from start to finish as a first of its kind at my previous university). I have since quit because that work caused so much burnout. I’m a neuroscience PhD (dissertation was on neurotrauma), and been doing and researching psychedelics since I was 15, founded and currently run a psychedelic society, have been chairing a state psychedelic medicine task force for the past year, and now diving more into the legislative and legal arena (studying for the LSAT) since it seems science is not moving the needle as much as I want. Want to try a different angle to broaden access. Hit me up if you ever want to chat about the intersection of all that. https://nielsonlab.umn.edu/ jnielson@umn.edu Or psychedelicmn@gmail.com

Natalie Zementbeisser

you sound dangerously clever

Cameron Mitchell

I mean I doubt double jeopardy will apply to drugs, but I would assume that the DEA wouldn’t want to be humiliated twice in a row. Presumably these personnel are being paid, so any court case that doesn’t work in their favor is money being wasted. If they already lost it’s too much of a gamble to spend that kind of money again. Although all DEA spending is inherently wasteful, so maybe they don’t care.

Natalie Zementbeisser

Never heard of them. Who are they?

Natalie Zementbeisser

tremendous, tremendous, tremendous!!!

Sato S

Nightmare blunt rotation

Robin Hewitt

A FOIA request may be worth a shot, but I'm not sure if the legal proceedings followed a similar format at that time (1984). The hearing itself would have been substantially different, and probably quite interesting. Several companies had marketed methaqualone as a prescription drug, so re-listing it from S1 to S2 would not have sat well with many wealthy stakeholders. At the same time, the DEA had a much stronger case for widespread diversion and abuse. I wish I knew if the Quaalude lives up to its reputation, but the DOI hearing has demonstrated the absolute disconnect between the DEA and the reality they create laws for.

Erik

what if DOI isn't scheduled this time, what prevents the DEA from trying again next week? or the week after?

Meek

For entertainment’s sake I hope this trial goes on for months. Trial of serotonin 7.

Terry Henry

Great stuff

Paul

Nichols mentionning his 293 publications 🤣🤣 I know Frank Mann got cold sweats after hearing this

Kd

This is how I imagined it

Kd

Which 2 companies is Nichols referring to?

Clifford Anderson

I screamed for joy in my car when you announced David Nichols. Amazing.

rabidreject

I have a few molecular structure tattoos. Had them for like 20 years before I started seeing them EVERYWHERE!! Also not of DOI

nickbaba

Objection! OBJECTION!!!

michael carr

Was there a similar hearing for the scheduling of Methaqualone (Quaaludes)? Would it be possible to request the transcript of that hearing? Would it require an FOI request?

Oscar Graham

Well for once I feel I can relate to Frank Mann. During some second-year biochemistry papers at Uni I also had a hatred for G-protein coupled receptors.

Douglas Skene

The only way this can get worse is if Psymposia appears as an expert witness for the DEA.

B-Boy Bungus

I'm always begging for content and now I can't keep up. Day 1 was great, about to start day 2. Thanks for the prompt reporting. Hamilton: I was wondering if you were aware of Tim Friede the herpetologist that has been bitten by a large number of venomous snakes. A real cowboy of self-experimentation... not exactly drugs or chemistry, but I feel like there's enough crossover with this crowd that they may appreciate an interview (if possible) or at least at look at this article: https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/exploration-survival/snakebite-antivenom-tim-friede/

Armchair Idiot

The DEA keeps shooting themselves in the foot with all their objections. It's hilarious. I'm feeling really optimistic about this

Ericaceous

It does appear to be him based on his LinkedIn profile

Ericaceous

I believe he said he was the only journalist present in the first dispatch

Zachary Markman

Essential work and spectacular storytelling. I’m enjoying every chapter of this historic content.

Broadcasts From Poor Farm

Big hug, and I don't know ... maybe some golf.

M

LOL

Ericaceous

I tried to include all the humorous notes from throughout the trial thus far but if I missed anything that you think deserves a stanza, let me know and I'll put it in!

Dylan

Frank Mann is a known ligand supremecist.

Ericaceous

Frank Mann Frank Mann Doing things only the man can He shouts, he objects He’s a high school chemistry reject DOI and DOC Both unfamiliar to thee Me thinks thou dost protest too much You use your power as a crutch DOI party, the PTA Can reddit be counted as fair play? The internet barely knows this substance I think THAT should count as evidence Scientific research, ever heard of it? Continued study, you should permit Schedule 1 licenses are hard to acquire Sound arguments have drawn your ire Easels and personal vacations Potential points of provocation If your case is iron clad Why are these considered bad? Al Pacino, Lieutenant Kaffee Do you know legal film history? The carpet appears to match your suit To me, It is clear: ‘you can’t handle the truth!’ 5HT2A and anti-inflammatory DOI presents its story Not even rodents want these drugs So please don’t sweep them under the rug Hamilton swiftly scribbles his notes Expert witnesses call in remote The oppressive atmosphere of the DEA On zoom, its power goes away Who did you speak with at the DEA? Who did you speak with at the DEA?! Nobody, no one, comes the reply Honestly, who hired this guy? G-protein coupled receptors These are Frank's manifested Dementors Science is the enemy He wants to run he wants to flee Carbonaro, that’s all you got? Scheduling chemicals without a thought Nichols put you in your place You thought you won with too much haste Face of the law, butt of our jokes SSDP has you on the ropes Is DOI illegal yet? On that, I surely wouldn’t bet Frank Mann Frank Mann The DEA can enforce and it can ban I’m thankful he is incompetent SSDP is feeling confident Who will win this legal fight? Will they take our given rights? Thinks he's won, case in the tank Thank god thank god they went with Frank!

Eric Foht

Hey Hamilton, In The Drug Science Podcast, Episode 78, with Dr Charles Nichols he describes a bit about the work he lost in Hurricane Katrina, that you referenced in this latest installment. It’s around 16:30 into the interview. Really enjoying your coverage. Thanks!

Douglas Skene

David E Nichols entering the court was an incredible moment. Don't think I could've enjoyed this more being there in person. Having it filtered through the scientific and comedic lens of Hamilton is making this some of the Patreon's best content 👌

jennifer

mazel tov

Helmer

I imagine Dr Nichols entrence looked something like a slightly less imposing version of General Zhukovs entrence in the Death of Stalin. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytA-0xTYRUo

Cameron Mitchell

David Nichols The Grey telling the DEA balrog that it shall not schedule

Kyra

Does anyone know of any other sources of updates regarding the trial outside of these podcasts?

Alex .

Are these hearings on weekdays only ? and are they open to the public?

Noel

I’m guessing that you are reading from your notes? Your writing is very good! 😂 at your semi-dry humor

Brian Bolan

He's the Man. Frank Mann, to be exact. The epitome of justice and the face of the law. The Mann performs and shouts and objects all around, to realize his dream of the DEA unbound.

Brett Zeigler

Is that THE Frank Mann at 3:20? He may not know anything about chemistry but he can cover the shit out a fireworks display. https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=635561840297996

Julien Weinstein

This shit is hilarious man god damn

Ham with Pineapple and Maraschino Cherries

Yayyyy day 4

sage khanna

God I love this coverage, please do more stuff like this in the future if possible. Don't if it will impact your research or mental health, but I'd love to see more on the ground reporting. Keep up the good work Hamilton!

ecological conservation

"tremendous tremendous tremendous"

Michael Cunningham

This is not a war on drugs, it’s a war on G-protein coupled receptors

willows

Hells yeah just spent the whole recording grinning and laughing whilst laying in bed. Feeling very optimistic after this one! Dave Nichols is such a boss I’m so glad that he blessed Mr Man and the rest of the court with his white light. Tough day at the office for Mr man.. the words “overruled” are gonna haunt him for the rest of time.