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The Issaquah Accords

🕑 Added 2025-02-28 22:58:01 +0000 UTC

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MCDM Productions

People can check out your video of the Codex in action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctjve9DmNpA

MCDM Productions

We don't have answers to all the mechanics of how things will work, but we will share details here via Patreon once we do. -Geoff

deadbob

It's not a huge factor but that's more due to the fact that its usually one person getting excited for a system and buying it to run for the others. I don't know if my group are a typical or not, we've been playing together for over 20 years almost every week, different games etc. and while we all GM, theres usually two or three of us that do the bulk of it, and buy most of the systems. One person will be enthused by a system and invest in it, but its rare that the others do the same. Its been the same with VTT. I started using Roll20 in my games about 10 years ago I think, so that one of us could still join in remotely even though they had moved away. It soon became invaluable, and we used it even in person for maps, characters etc. Again though I think I'm still the only one with more than a free account after all this time, but while Roll20 is free, and gets a lot of slack because of it, I have filled in the gaps automating powers in 4th ed character sheets and even knocking up rough characters for Draw Steel so we could test the combat and the sample adventure, (went well by the way!). So while I am shelling out £50? a year happily, my players don't have to which has made it the default. I'll be there, but I am already invested, I backed the kickstarter, I'm here on Patreon, I think what ive seen so far on DMHub is great, and I'm willing to pop my money down, it just feels a bit off having to potentially ask my players to chip in to play unless its relatively cheap. Building and hosting such a complex site does need to be adequately funded though, so if you have to charge everyone do it, and I wish you all well!

Rise Heroes Rise!

I've been using the Codex for Danger Rooms, and it's a VERY powerful piece of software! The goblin implementation DMHub have been working on it great!

Ben Milne

Theres a few things im failing to grasp, although its likely im just dense. If patrons are patrons are given access to the latest and greatest when implemented, how would that function? Would patrons effectively link steam accounts so you could update en mass? How would a purchase of the rules correspond to codex access? would a code be given upon payment at checkout at the mcdm store? If a discounted party rules bundle were implemented would that mean multiple codes to send to friends? I understand that all this is tbd, so if there is no set answer for anything, i shant be bent out of shape! Its an incredible update regardless, and i think in this avenue specifically we as a community are lucky to have people so willing to be transparent about the work we support. i also want to add, the idea of routine updates just giving availability to all content does sound fantastic. The initial draw of the seattle company's digital character sheet was primarily the cheap individual purchases theyve since walked back entirely, so having a similar model more focused on the player accesibility is frankly astounding.

Antan Karmola

Yes, that's exactly what I'm suggesting. I'd be quite happy with that.

Chappy Hall

That's good to hear! Thanks for clarifying Geoff o7

Eric Gershik

Thanks for the correction. Reading is FUNdamental!

MCDM Productions

Good point. A starter adventure with a few pre-made characters is a great way to introduce Draw Steel to new players and it does not require anyone to purchase books (not even the Director). -Geoff

MCDM Productions

The answer to this question is wildly subjective, but we are here making sausage so I am going to risk asking. Is cost a top factor in consideration for your players when selecting a game? -Geoff

MCDM Productions

When you suggest a subscription, do you mean a premium subscription that you as the Director would pay and it would cover everything for the entire table? -Geoff

MCDM Productions

Our hope is that with things like Steam sales and key bundles we can get the cost per player down to a level where even for forever DMs who bear most of the financial burden, it will feel like a great value. -Geoff

MCDM Productions

We are committed to having cheap/free options for introducing players to Draw Steel, but the cheap/free option may not be via Codex. We are still too early into the development process to know what the best way to help a Director introduce new players to Draw Steel is likely to be and frankly, it's probably different for each table. -Geoff

MCDM Productions

I think perhaps there is a bit of a miscommunication, but we are still figuring things out, so that it so be expected. It is not a requirement to own/purchase any books to get the Codex. You will be able to purchase it directly. -Geoff

Eric Gershik

Nevermind! Woohoo!

Melissa Harden

I hope the makers are taking notes from all the tips and tricks people are using to make Draw Steel more manageable in other VTTs and make those features

Hive_Indicator

I don't know why people are acting like players will have to buy the Heroes book just to be able to see if they like the game. It's totally doable to run a session or two in another vtt before jumping into this.

D.R.

As I said in my answer to Joseph Coffa above, it currently seems to be the plan to give all players access to player options for free, as Djordi says in the post: "[p]layers will eventually get access to all player options, even if they aren’t a Patron, or even if they haven’t purchased a product with the corresponding player options." So I wouldn't worry too much about this at the moment. MCDM has a great track record of doing what is most useful and fair for their customers, as long as it remains remotely financially sustainable for them as a company. They don't chase infinite growth with a flood of microtransactions like the Seattle game company seems to be planning with their VTT and I doubt MCDM ever will.

D.R.

Whilst the future is uncertain and both DMHub as well as MCDM have to make sure they aren't loosing money hosting this service, Djordi did say in the post above that "[p]layers will eventually get access to all player options, even if they aren’t a Patron, or *even if they haven’t purchased a product with the corresponding player options*." So it doesn't really sound like they want to force each player at the table to buy the Heroes book if they can help it.

Joseph Coffa

I agree with some of the pricing concerns raised by others. I already know that getting each player at my table to individually buy the core rules (even at a discount) to use the VTT is going to be like pulling teeth, and unfortunately I doubt they're at a level of investment that's high enough for them to feel good about a subscription-esque model through the Patreon at its current price point. It's certainly not impossible, but it'd take a fair bit of convincing. I feel like, for my table, a cheaper way to get much more restricted/barebones access (i.e. only to games ran by my account as director, only able to use my personal rulebooks that I've already purchased, they can't make their own games/be director, etc.) will be easier to get buy-in from my players. Don't get me wrong, the idea of a one-time purchase of the core rulebook and being able to double-dip and get digital access at the same time is going to be great for a lot of people who have an entire table of enthusiastic players and directors alike. If my table was like that I would probably be ecstatic about this pricing implementation as it feels incredibly nice to *not* have to buy a physical copy for in-person session AND a second digital copy of "the same thing" for use in the VTT (like with Roll20 and similar products). But for the reality of my table where people are totally down and excited to play Draw Steel but aren't, like, *super* invested it sounds like it's going to be rough if we want to use the Codex. Maybe this just means I'm not the target audience, which is completely possible and fine! Pricing aside, the videos of the Codex have looked very impressive since the first teaser we got a while back; I haven't even used it yet and I'm practically frothing at the mouth to get the chance to try it out and make some dope maps on it. I don't think actually using the codex itself will disappoint if I can manage to get it for my table!

ranch_big

so the impression I'm getting from this is that the codex is not meant to be a way to hook new players on draw steel at all? because in my experience the person pitching a new system to the group will run it and also buy all necessary materials to run it. and i can't realistically do that with the codex. if the codex is only meant for people who are locked in and committed to Draw Steel as their system of choice, that's great. premium product for premium pricing. but the pricing model makes it kind of impossible to use the codex as a method to introduce people to Draw Steel. I would really like an option for me, as a director, to pay some kind of premium so that any of my prospective players can try levels 1-3 for free. maybe even just level 1. maybe even with limited character options or something?

That black guy

Issaquah definitely is a beautiful place

ZooSKP

This! - I use Fantasy Grounds currently and rely on their ultimate license to host games so my players never pay. I also have players come and go frequently as they dabble, move on, etc. A pricing model where I need to effectively get a new license, even discounted ror every player is no bueno. OTOH, a model where I can buy a pool of licenses to give out to people's accounts and then reallocate as needed would work.

Chappy Hall

Reserving judgement to see how the party pack bundles look. Like many tables, as the gm I end bearing the burden of owning and providing rules and other products needed to play, and if I wanted to use the Codex it sounds like I would need to pay for most of them since they just aren't rpg hobbyists beyond 3 hours one night a week. We all live far away from each other so digital is the only practical way we can play so I appreciate the effort to create such a robust, bespoke VTT experience.

Antan Karmola

I'd like to make a request that you look into a couple of additional account options for Codex: 1) A free trial option, whether this be time limited or limited to pre-gen characters. Something that would allow me to give new players a taste of the system through Codex before they actually commit to paying for anything. 2) A subscription option where I pay a little bit each month that allows me to share the access I have to the products I've paid for with my players. The reason I ask this is because most of my (potential) players are well embedded in the D&D ecosystem. In order to entice them over to Draw Steel, I would essentially be buying them each a copy of the game/access to Codex. While I'm not adversed to doing this, options that make it easier to entice new players without an immediate finacial burden on them would be very welcome.

Reformed Hillbilly

I must say, in addition to this post being very informative, it is also hilarious.

deadbob

depends on the cost, if theres a cheap player access and a more expensive dm/ patreon level i think that would be fine to sell to my mates, or id get it them myself

Carlos Romero

I'll try to reserve judgement until release but if I, as a DM, need to pay and then my players need to pay, it does not sound like a good fit.

Logan Marin

I feel like requiring players to buy into a VTT with being a patron or buying individual implementations of the player rules and options will be a tough obstacle to overcome. I already know that will likely prevent me from using the codex with my table.

Borkware

Sweet! Really looking forward to it. Any plans for a tablet (easy to bring to the table) version? (or a web-based one that could be played on tablets)

AmbyNavy

Exciting to see the approach! As a Scot and a codex tester, I appreciate The Haggis Analogy™ too :)

Trevor Chart

"Marketplace"... Dude I will 100% pay a few bucks several times an adventure to buy dope maps to run combats on for my players.


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