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51. Labyrinths

🕑 Added 2023-03-19 06:57:16 +0000 UTC

Comments

Mickey Phoenix

It seems to me, at least on first reflection, that an organization whose existence is dedicated to torturing and killing people to prevent an apocalypse is approaching the problem in a way that is fundamentally both ineffectual and immoral. It also seems to me, again on first reflection, that an organization whose collective conclusion is "since torturing and killing people is the thing that's worked so far, it's the thing we should keep doing" is incapable of collective wise decision making. And finally, it seems to me, again on first reflection, that an organization like this which has stated that it pursues people relentlessly and with absolute success until it tortures and kills them, is an organization which its targets have a moral right (and, potentially a moral obligation) to eliminate. (The moral obligation deriving from the fact that even if Hannah were willing to sacrifice her own well-being and/or life as an alternative to eliminating the cultists, they would simply continue doing to future Founder's Kin what they have been doing to Hannah). I don't know if Hannah is capable of eliminating the cult (which, as far as I can tell, would necessitate eliminating the cultists, root and branch). It's clear that she believes that she is not capable of eliminating the cult without becoming someone that she loathes (although it is not at all clear to me that she is correct about this; in fact , I think she is wildly mistaken about it). But I do think that it is ethically permissible, and possibly ethically mandatory, for Hannah to eliminate the cult, even if/even though that would require killing the cultists. Again, self-defense is not punishment, is not the death penalty, is not murder. It is self-defense. I think that killing the cultists would greatly distress Hannah; no, that it would horribly traumatize Hannah. And I'm sure the Goddess takes great delight in having provided Hannah with a sufficiently traumatic childhood that she both *could* kill all of the cultists, and *would* be horribly traumatized by doing so. But the fact that this world has an insane demiurge torturing it does not necessarily change Hannah's moral obligations and moral options. If anything, it means that the ethically optimal actions are likely to be more unpleasant and traumatizing than they would be in a stochastic universe, much less than they would be in one with an ethical deity. And the fact that the goddess's long game may (probably does) include forcing Hannah to take actions that Hannah finds morally apparent and traumatizing does not mean that Hannah should therefore not take those actions. The goddess's long game probably also includes watching Hannah permit herself to be tormented until enough parts of her are fundamentally broken that she lashes out in rage and ends up accidentally breaking the world in turn. I think it would be far better for Hannah to take a morally correct (if viscerally abhorrent) action now, to protect herself from further damage that would otherwise break her, than for her to refrain from that action, and end up doing far worse in the future as a result. I really hope that she is able to come to a similar conclusion, and kill the cultists (or otherwise permanently destroy the cult), before she is damaged enough that she ends up causing the apocalypse.

hhttghlk

Excuse accepted. Bar lowered.

Mantarok1205

I'm pretty sure Hannah is going off her feelings on this, and her feelings don't care about your opinion.

May Raven

I mean, isn’t being morally justified in killing something that uses your body without your consent a major abortion argument? With the analogies like : “Well if being attached to you surgically for months was the only way for them to live, is it ethical for you to refuse to do so?” I think Alma has a pretty strong case that killing Jet is well within their rights, especially because this lasts her whole life, is a huge risk to her safety, and fairly shortens her lifespan.

Matt Gannon

I don't think it ever hit me that people with DID essentially might feel like their lifespan is literally shorter than everyone else's just because time is shared with whatever other people you share a body with. That's a really scary thought especially if you mix in the fact that you don't even have control of your own time 100% since you have to deal with the consequences of other's actions too.