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55. Face to Face

🕑 Added 2023-04-18 04:34:50 +0000 UTC

Comments

Alexander Pike

I understand the questions Jet, Alma, and Hannah’s conversation raises regarding the difference between intending to harm a partner, versus the bald fact of the partner suffering harm. While are all three are framing the harm Autumn has suffered as abuse and stepping past the question, I think that’s mostly because Hannah and Jet are trying to convince Alma of their point, not decide philosophically how to answer the question. My read is that Jet and Hannah both agree pretty quickly that, it ultimately doesn’t matter how much Hannah didn’t intend to hurt Alma because the degree of harm suffered is so extreme. Worse, while Hannah isn’t malicious, she is aware at this point the core motivations behind her actions were purely selfish. As an even greater confound, Alma implicitly agrees that she is not able to accurately self-report on whether or not she actually feels harmed. So, abuse is a strong, loaded word for what Hannah has done, but if the conclusion she and Jet each reached is, “Hannah has severely and detrimentally altered the life of her significant other multiple times for ultimately selfish reasons, she has limited guard rails for preventing it from happening again, and her SO isn’t able to stop her,” well, I can see why, “But Hannah also feels bad about it,” isn’t treated as a big factor their conclusions. Hannah feeling bad about it doesn’t stop it from happening, so in the end, it’s a separate, less important issue.

Mickey Phoenix

Also, as far as abusive relationship dynamics go, by my standards Alma was abusing Hannah, not the other way around. To be honest, reading their conversation, I feel like all my is basically gaslighting Hannah by claiming that Hannah was abusing her, when actually Alma was abusing Hannah by lying to her, manipulating her, and arranging to be harmed by her without getting Hannah's consent for that to happen. What are your thoughts on that?

Mickey Phoenix

Thundamoo, I need you to explain something to me, if you're willing. Jet, Alma, and Hannah all seem to agree that Hannah has been abusive to Alma. But they seem, as far as I can tell, to be basing this on the fact that Hannah has hurt Alma, that Hannah non-consensually transformed Alma, and that (they claim) Hannah non-consensually dragged Alma into another universe. But -- for one thing, by my lights, Alma *very explicitly gave consent* for Hannah to drag her into the other universe. She specifically said that it would be okay, that she wanted that if it were possible. The fact that she was apparently lying does not make her expressed consent invalid; just incredibly unhealthy. I will admit that it's been long enough that I don't remember the circumstances under which Hannah transformed. Alma, but I know that it was early enough in Hannah's use of magic that she really had no idea what the hell she was doing. That doesn't mean it isn't harmful, but... ...and that's the crux of the whole thing. I don't think that harming someone is abuse. I think it's regrettable, and something that needs to be apologized for, and for which amends need to be made. But just harming someone is not necessarily abusive. We hurt and harm each other accidentally all the time. That doesn't mean we're all in abusive relationships or abusing each other all the time. It means that humans sometimes hurt and harm each other by mistake. But they seem to be defining any act of causing harm as being intrinsically abusive. And, at least as far as the teleportation between worlds goes, they seem to be defining consent somehow very differently than I do. So. Please untangle this for me?

Sarah

She did know she could lose control, yes. When it happened, she went "Oh fuck so THAT'S what sindri was warning me about"

nemovere

I might just be clueless, but when Autumn (so both Jet and Alma) calls Hannah an abuser, is she referring to any behavior beyond the magic? Because when all the magic was basically accidental because she's new to it and had new instincts she hasn't learned to deal with, isn't it kinda iffy to call that abuse? Like, obviously there was damage done. But "abuse" is more specific than that, right? Taking magic out of the equation, if you start having a disorder that makes you randomly flail your arms, and maybe it's possible to predict or learn to control but you haven't learned how yet because it's all new, is it abuse when you hit your partner or child by accident? Did Hannah even know she could lose control over her magic before it happened the first time?

Sarah

Least horrifying chapter in a long time, thanks! Very much enjoying Autumn getting their shit together and... Uhm. Okay, did anyone else get the vibe they were flirting at the end there? Eerie, but cute, but still very uncomfortable, i don't even know

ThatOneVampire

when they travelled across, the words used made me think of the corridor from Coraline. The little doorway that looks both really close while also being stretched space and further away than you think.

Callum Rhodes

Phew, I really worried the trip across the bridge may have been one way. Been holding my breath to see whether they could return. Glad to see they can.


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