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Hell on Earth - Appendix 3: MONEY (feat. Patrick Wyman)

🕑 Added 2023-03-29 11:00:03 +0000 UTC

Comments

Shane-A112

how much a thaller really cost?

Crew Bittner

the anarchy by william dalrymple is a solid one

CJ Horton

Any nonfiction book suggestions on 17th century companies (e.g. Dutch East India) and economics?

Discount Cagliostro

This is a great series, and I really hope they keep doing projects like this. I do feel like the proposed thesis of this period being uniquely critical in the "genesis of capitalism" is a bit forced though. Critical, sure, but hardly unique. They themselves discuss multiple times earlier in the episode how many of the essential innovations of commercial capitalism, such as financial instruments, accounting methods, insurance, and legally recognized commercial partnerships, existed even in the middle ages or before (the main innovation actually occurring in this period being joint-stock companies). Regarding industrial capitalism, there are also important developments before (the putting-out system in Italian and Flemish textiles) and after (Colbert's domestic monopoly factories) the 30 Years War period leading up to the Industrial Revolution. Doesn't take away from how cool this period and series has been though!

J P 3

There's a really good interview on Lapham's Quarterly with William Dalrymple (Episode 49), which is a nice compliment to this episode and the series. e.g. How did England rise to become the pre-eminent economic global and political power (until its decline in the early 20th century)? What was the impact of weapons development during the 30 years war on European imperial power in the centuries that followed? Some real useful details in terms of the development of global capitalism, the formation of the British East India Company, the movement towards colonization, etc.

skrrt vonnegut

Life is like a hurricane; here in; Augsburg Fuck Tales, oowwooo

bruce moment

wyman is always such a good guest, he gets it

Daniel Johnson

Thanks so much for popularizing medieval and early modern history—you guys rule. Listeners might find this of interest: https://againstthecurrent.org/atc220/echoes-of-money-in-times-past/

Pulver

Hell ya love me some Pat Wyman since way back in the Heavy Hands days

Ozzie

Meet the Fuggers

EricVulgaris

This whole series makes me want to play the board game Here I Stand again.

Nick Muscatiello

Really enjoyed the slight variations on the pronunciation of Fugger every time it was sad

William

You could’ve just praised Patrick, but instead you had to be a cunt about it? Ffs, listening to norm was fine. Way better than reading these cringe ass crybaby comments about how you can’t handle listening to a conversation. You know there’s a pause button, right? You could’ve stopped

William

Not entirely true - this skips over a lot of what was actually happening. “Capital” started to flow north first under control of the Genoan merchant finance networks and then as those began to wane due to losses via Spanish write offs, the center of trade activity began to shift to the Low Countries, where the joint stock companies you talk about started to do their thing. The Dutch established those direct links and the British took them over after the Dutch power began to wane

William

Missing the mention of Genoa and their collab with Spain; dutch started to rise after Genoa as their monopoly on Baltic trade allowed them the surpluses to invest in other… “activities“ let’s call them. The long twentieth century answers Matt’s question about “capitalism “ moving from Italy, up the rhine, then to the Low countries and to england

David Andrews

It would have been impossible to do a better job on this series than you two did. A+

Philip P Deveney

Patrick wyman. Nuanced takes on history taking into account the complexities of material, social, and cultural relationships. Infinitely better than listening to Norman Finkelstein rant about how one of the richest men in the worlds childhood trauma justifies him killing thousands of people in a war of occupation.

J P 3

Thanks for another great episode guys. With respect to the "why did capital start flowing north?" question, part of the answer is in William Dalrymple's great book "The Anarchy" about the history of the British East India Company. Part of the short answer is that the joint stock companies were able to bypass the middle men (the Venetians, etc), by establishing direct links with resource markets. In the case of British, this maneuver was made necessary in the 1500s and 1600s by Henry VIII's split from the Catholic Church and the response of Spain and France. e.g. the English established a trading relationship with the Ottomans after being shut out of large parts of the continental trading system.

Dylan

1 thaler = 1 oz silver = roughly $25 usd. 1 PS5 = 20 thalers or if you use the 17th century gold/silver ratio it'd be 1/15th of an ounce of gold ($130 USD), in which case a PS5 would only be about 4 thalers.

Brian O'Connor

Pls bring on Mike Duncan. He has nothing to do now that Revolutions is done.

bator

I DONT UDERSTAND WHY YOU GUYS DONT CREDIT THE MUSIC LIKE THE THEME SONG???? JUST SAYING NICK DIMONDS ISNT ENUF

Joseph A Carpenter

best podcast miniseries ever. love that you’ve put this together. please keep making appendices forever, thank you

Rohmer Simpson

The real question is, how can I get mad at this episode? Uhhhhh Fugger apologia? Wow sir. Sit down. Take several seats How’s that

electradescending

Excited to see a War Nerd appearance next EP

(American spirit menthol

Hell yes pleasant hell by John dolan

David Cox

Money dudes wanting to be 'noble' has given us all this entitlement ever since among the bourgeoisie! "itsa nothin' personal.... itsa jus' bizzunisss'

Gubriel

She Fugger my Jakob till I, she Augs my Burg till I Fugger, she Jaks-ob my Fugger till Aug-Spurg, she,

Alec

I fugged my money up (damn) Now i can’t re-up

Robert Sayre

I'm not an expert in any of this, but the descriptions of finance sure sounded like Hawala (wikipedia will do here) to me. Then, I found "New perspective on the evolution of double-entry bookkeeping" by JL Williams. That makes it sound it like this technique comes with the Hindu/Arabic numerals we use now.

CJ

Do any of these Fuckers ever blast out of the wall and have like a huge cum shot??

Ian H

I dunno, I liked both interviews, and I think their presentation styles are tailored to their subjects. Like, Wyman is focused on the broad material and structural changes that drive historical events, and takes a drier, more analytical approach. Janega is focused on the quotidian details of life at the time, and uses a humorous tone and modern references to make the topic relatable.

Ian H

Also tulips are still a legitimate cash crop in the Netherlands. My partner works at a major public garden and they buy tens of thousands of dollars worth of imported Dutch bulbs every year. I think it's something like 5% of their total exports.

J Fitz

Great episode. Have to say I vastly prefer Wyman’s clear and eloquent explanations to Janega’s tedious and belabored LOLrandom schtick.

etienne

70IQ: tulip bubble is like cryptocurrency: speculative exchange value running way ahead of use value and makeing everyone look pretty dumb in the process 130IQ: tulip bubble is like cryptocurrency: negligible real-life economic impact

Mike Noble

My question is do any of these little Fuggers ever start blasting out of the walls?

Ian King

How Much a Thaler Cost

Kevin Essington

Patrick is terrific, I love his pod. Great get, guys.

Declan McNamara

LETS FUCKING GOOOOOOOOOO

Jammy Cooks

God, that opening theme is so fucking good.

Isaac Jones

I sure am enjoying Chapo Trap House's first and only upload so far this week!

SlowTrickle

Imagine telling your grandpa in 1955 that in 2023 you could buy a 10 pound tv with a picture that might as well be real life flattened out for $27 their money

Alex RoQ

Growing increasingly distressed that this amazing series will have to end and I’ll have to try pretending that Will talking about movies will be a worthy replacement.