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Thoughts on Watch Dogs: Legion

🕑 Added 2020-11-03 09:41:40 +0000 UTC
Thoughts on Watch Dogs: Legion

Comments

baknt

I'll have to check them DOOM interviews as your synopsis resonates with me a lot too, haha! Yet to play Eternal but 2016 is by far my fav shooter for exactly the reason you said (and never been able to articulate until now - thanks!!).

Steven Thornton

Really interesting, and what I worried would be the case from the previews. You're totally right: you need clear, strong pros+cons to different characters/tools to get players mixing it up and making strategic choices. The "one size fits all" approach just shifts the focus to a brute force stats contest. I come back to "given the chance, players will optimize the fun out of your game" a LOT. When confronted with a challenge, most players will ultimately choose safety and efficiency over their own enjoyment - designers need to give players a reason to play the fun way - if possible they need to make the fun way to play the most optimal way. The Hugo Martin DOOM Eternal interviews touch on this a lot, and it resonated with me a bunch

I now have this feeling that this is how the game is meant to be played, given how weak each member already is BUT can be rescued with multiplayer (a shame that it's going to be delayed until after new consoles).

Daniel Zaleznik

This is so disappointing. In the best world, this game would be something like Mooncrash--an innovative approach to persistent problems in immersive sim game design. It's sad to hear that it's gotten the Ubisoft treatment through and through. I really hope that the team that worked on this gets to iterate on it, now that the systems are in place. Hell, use the same London map! This mechanic has too much promise, and too much hard work went into it, to let it die quietly.

That hospital server example really stung: there's such great potential in this system, if only the design was more committed to it! I wonder what the game would be like if it went the opposite direction: everyone you recruit is *underpowered*, no single recruit can do much on their own because they're up against tremendous odds, but building a team where each person makes up for the other's weaknesses and having them all perform the mission both increases your odds and makes for a thrilling gameplay experience, switching between them, making sure no one dies, etc

Mark M

Interesting. Sounds like they added the play as anyone system to give the game something new, but didn't want to force players to engage with it if they didn't want to. So they removed any excessive punishments or anything that would require you to go out of your way to strategize. That way it appeals to the broadest audience, but doesn't really excel with anyone.

Mikhail Aristov

You know, Mark, "optimising the fun out of games" sounds like an great idea for a whole video. I know that Koster already wrote about it, but surely there have been new ideas and approaches to tackle the issue in the past 15 yeras?

It's not just "guns-for-everyone" in WDL, it's also "hacking-for-everyone" too. I see the appeal in it, systemically: you assemble a proper bunch of shlubs (the game developers did not design shlubs, the game created them) to take down the regime. And an appeal I have is how it's MY bunch of shlubs, just like it's MY Pokemon team that defeated the Champion. I chose which ones will help me reach the end-goal. Personally this game might be a bit lacking because there isn't enough moving parts in moment-to-moment gameplay. Multiplayer will inject a lot of fun into the system, but on PS4 that's gonna take a very long time.

Paolo Torelli

Aside the "guns for everyone" issue (which I hope is back-story related), I am indeed most surprised by "everyone can do everything" statement: why have many characters when they are fungible? I like the multiple solutions, but as you mention it might just auto-optimise the fun out of it; similarly goes for the "hard to kill": being lenient on unskilled (or disabled!) players is good... unless it ends up making the game not fun. I know full well making a difficulty auto-balancing system is hard and very prone to failure, but I wonder if they even tried or considered one

I want to focus on the paramedic example you gave, and how it is systemically more interesting to change someone's opinion of DedSec and recruit them, but can also pick someone who already likes DedSec. This can be addressed with characters that don't like you having more abilities and make them more valuable, human resources. So this paramedic can also treat other members' injuries quicker and also take reduced damage overall. I have not finished (I've actually barely started story missions, instead I'vebeen out recruiting people), but I FEEL like that way of engaging in recruiting people already exists. Many characters with multiple, good abilities inherently dislike DedSec; in contrast to those that do like you, they possess only one or perhaps two abilities. These people will be more valuable to the team throughout the story of your game. Handy that I'm still in the early game, because the story is me assembling my team of hackers AND THEN taking down the regime. That's the exact narrative in Far Cry 3, except the game didn't decide this, I decided it. Currently, I think the Recruitment system lacks an element that I didn't appreciate in Darkest Dungeon (and now I want to replay): you have to "fire" people. There exists a limit on how many people you can recruit, but you can't explicitly fire them. In WDL have to send them on suicide missions to get rid of them (and holy fuck, that's a messed-up emergent narrative you've put into your game). And finally I think the number of abilities per character makes it too simplistic and restrictive. In Shadow of Mordor, some Uruk:s can have a few good and bad perks as an even enemy; some can have loads of bad perks to represent them as inferior captains; have loads of good perks and a weakness that makes them stubborn to defeat; or have a few perks and be a mostly basic enemy. The number of perks didn't have a hard cap, and it has made the Uruks overall more interesting to engage with. It is awesome to see this system reworked for controllable characters, but I think this system "making it feel restrictive to engage with", highlights to me how restrictive just doing anything in WDL actually is.

ZoidbergForPresident

So, were you disappointed in your hero designer? :P

Such a shame. I am so bored of generic open world games, they all feel exactly the same. I was hoping this game could shake it up a little. I understand these multi million dollar games are very risk adverse, but they really need to start taking some. Loved Far Cry 2 for the same reasons as you.


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