Post "UNCUT - The Wounded (TNG S4E12) | Star Trek Journey 193" by "Target Audience" from patreon

ET

Picard is just epic. This show is amazing. These were my life lessons in the early '90s when I was growing up. Picard was my influencer.

Lyric

Jeri Taylor a woman guys

Lyric

The Cardasians are gonna be a big part in Star Trek now just the tip of the iceberg.

Ee'char

I have to admit, this was one I'd never seen 1st time round and only paid cursory attention when I finally caught it on repeat. It's rare that I'd rate an episode an S, but I think this would be one of them

jan

if you ever re-watch the episode, you will get the "feels" as soon as he starts humming the Minstrel Boy while serving dinner - at least i always do

Raphael Gaytan

I agree with you, Collin. I will always love TOS, but TNG is the very best Star Trek series! They just took everything to a whole new level, as Josh and Alex are now discovering! This discussion will no doubt re-ignite as we get closer to the guys watching DS9. But to me, DS9 kind of defeats the whole purpose of “trekking” when you’re parked in one place and everything has to come to you. However, still a fine series.

Collin Freeman

@Mark Newark, I think we are entirely on the same page. There are maybe a dozen episodes of Star Trek TOS that are classics and the best of all the Star Trek series, but as a whole, TNG to me is the best of the Star Trek series. Not only does it capture much of what Roddenberry was attempting as a sci fi series, but the storytelling and ensemble of characters with great acting make it just so perfect. Granted, the first 2 seasons are more miss than hit, but I think that is true of all the Berman-era Star Trek series'.

Carl Davies

Anyone else notice that O'Brien has officer pips on his collar in this one?

tyranusfan

I can’t say why but there is something introduced later that would explain it

Paul Hess

He said it was when he was a kid. Lots of kids think that way.

Paul Hess

This one gets two "M's" for colM Meaney in addition to two BIG-S's for the episode. Every scene of his was amazing, but Meaney had me at "muffin". Even at the end with Maxwell when his script was to just say "Yes Sir..." over and over again he was fantastic. Marc Alamo was a perfect guest. Maybe the weakest link was the guy playing Ben Maxwell but even that's decent, just not amazing acting.

Crankygrandma

PS. It’s Marc Ah-LIE-mo.

Crankygrandma

Back when you were saying how good miles was as a minor character, I was thinking of this episode. Your reaction to “transporter chief” was the same as many fans. People loved “chief” even before he had a name on the show. The show took note.

Spencer Loften

Love to see those S tier ratings. Great episode.

Libertu Pastor Bey

You haven't seen the last of Marc Alaimo in the Star Trek franchise. Trust me.

penoyer79

knowing you guys are big O'Brien fans, I've been waiting this one. Also one of my favorite Eps of the series. Marc Alaimo is fantastic. He was in Total Recall.

paultardspambot .

it's not all species, we encounter plenty of species where that isn't the case. It's really only the Romulans and now the Cardassians. Th Klingons are fed allies but that alliance is sometimes in jeopardy. Otherwise, most species are either somewhat friendly or locally hostile but not capable of going to war with the federation.

paultardspambot .

In my opinion, DS9 is the best of trek, but it's dependent on what came before as far as world building and creating a filled in universe. I don't think people who are looking forward to DS9 aren't enjoying the TNG reactions, they are just saying it will continue to be fun in the future. Also there are reasons this particular episode make people think about DS9.

Aaron Wells

I think TNG certainly had more of the best individual episodes...but DS9 had by far the best overall story arc, being far more serialized. And DS9 also had wonderful character development...think of those characters as they started compared with how the ended. They mostly wound up being very different people by the end of it all. DS9 had its flaws, but its overall my favorite Trek series. Even if no single episode could compete with the best of TNG.

Mark

Mosquitos are considered an endangered species as per Cobra Bubbles.

That one green Bolian

The Rutledge was a smaller ship and probably had a different command structure.

Raphael Gaytan

When I say Roddenberry captured lightning in a bottle for a second time…HE was the one who came up with the characters that we all love. HE approved the casting for this series. It was HIS bible that was to be the basis for the stories that were told. Both TOS and TNG were HIS visions for the future. There is a story from behind the scenes that circulated during the making of the third season. As Ronald Moore told it, he went to Gene with an idea for an episode. Gene asked him, “What is it about?” After Moore pitched the story…the drama, the intrigue, the space battles…Gene asked him again, “What is it ABOUT?” Gene wanted the stories told to be about something bigger than what was on the surface. He wanted the exploration of space to be about the exploration of the Human Condition. This was the genius of Gene Roddenberry. This is what his successor Rick Berman made certain was always adhered to after his passing.

Matt Newmark

Had to go back to the poll to see what I ranked this - I ranked it S. After seeing it again for the first time in a long time, that rank was WELL EARNED.

Matt Newmark

"Rodenberry's [TNG]" is an interesting thing to say given that it's pretty much universally accepted that the series wasn't good until AFTER he was no longer a major contributor. What worked in the 60s didn't really in the 80s. Berman, Piller, Fontana, et. al. are the people with the second coming of lightning in a bottle. I'm one that ranks TNG > TOS when comparing the total body of work (Full series + movies) - IT'S CLOSE, but if you remove a few key episodes and the even numbered movies, it's NOT. PEAK Voyager is the best "consistent" Trek. I guess we'll see what the boys say in like.. 3 years lol.

Collin Freeman

I'm with you, Raphael

Raphael Gaytan

I am truly dismayed by all the anticipation for DS9 that I’m reading on this thread. Don’t get me wrong, it was a fine show, but the guys are already watching and enjoying the very best of Star Trek! I DO look forward to revisiting the series when they get to it…but in my humble opinion, all future series can’t re-capture the same lightning in a bottle of Roddenberry’s TOS and TNG!

Paul Noad

I mean if you're referring to quality then yes, but A and B are essentially just primary/secondary. The larger events occur independent of O'Brien and are thus the primary plot. He does help with the resolution at the end, but that is just him serving the primary plot. His story only happens as a consequence of those larger events and is thus an offshoot of them making it secondary. Of course the focus of the episode is important as well. If most of the runtime was focused on O'Brien, that could make his story the A plot. That also doesn't mean that A and B are always connected either. If you had 2 completely independent stories, then focus would be the main way to judge which is A or B. This is just an example of the B plot actually being interesting and relevant rather than just a distraction or a way to pad the runtime.

Timothy Nikiforovs

I don't think so. I think he's just lost so many people that they all kind of blend together at this point and he doesn't fully remember who died where.

Derek Orr

Sure...but having experienced both places there is a distinct difference in America vs Canada with respect to that

Boggle

I've always assumed part of the need to keep the peace with the Cardassians is that the Federation is still trying to recover from the Borg attack that decimated their fleet and trained personnel numbers, at least in the short-term. They don't really mention it in the episode directly, but the Cardassian-Federation war had literally just ended a few years before the Borg attack on Earth. And it didn't really have a clean finish, and it's still very fresh in the minds of both sides. And the idea that Cardassia might take advantage of the Federation's weakness is a fairly believable one.

Jovet

The Stompy mention was totally an attempt at (emotional) manipulation.

Jovet

Star Trek should encourage people to grow. Maybe they'll even come to appreciate their evil technobabble!

Jovet

DS9 starts after S6E11 of TNG. Should be mid-2025 or so, for TA.

Jovet

The best part of the writing of this episode is how O'Brien tried to get his wife to help him understand his biases without admitting them to her. That's a very O'Brien thing to do!

Jovet

You can melt into society and still maintain your individual essence. See also: fondue

Jovet

I suspect sloppy writing. See also: mosquitos, Warp 4, rogue Starfleet captains, that damned headpiece...

Jovet

Meanwhile, Picard is gushing to the Cardassians about "See? We're doing everything possible." 🤦

Jovet

Dialogue problem: how is a Cardassian supposed to know what mosquito is? And bonus: can I really believe that a human being would ever think twice about squashing a mosquito? (A: No)

SageGreenGoat

Before even starting the video, I know that T-shirt would be better if it said "Resting Gorn Face"

JoeCensored

In the lore, the Nebula class starship (USS Phoenix) was developed as part of the Galaxy Class Starship Development Project, which is why the ship shares so many components with the Galaxy class (USS Enterprise). In reality, the Nebula class was created as a kit bash, made from Enterprise D toy model kits, and first appeared on screen at Wolf 359 among the destroyed fleet by the Borg. They liked the design so much, they brought it back for this episode.

Just another Red Shirt

I’m referencing something there pal.

Derek Orr

Nebulas class ship is one of the first TNG era ships we see (not older movie era ships) ...arguably the first if you count the Ent-C as being pre TNG era. And it's basically a Galaxy class saucer with engines and a pod....so still one of the main frontline capital ships of the fleet. This is no aging Oberth science ship or repurposed as cargo ship Miranda class or old Excelsior class lumbering around.

harrypothead42024

Look you're arguing with yourself at this point. From where I stand your opinions don't reflect reality and I'm sure my opinions don't reflect reality based on where you're at. This is a situation where we both have to agree we love Star Trek and we both have to disagree on what that means have a great day

Derek Orr

That was certainly a good episode....as was this one....however just like the silly goofy ones....it's about moderation. An occasional fighting the bad guys or combat/war focus story here and there is fine...but thats not really what Star Trek is about for many of us.

Derek Orr

Indeed....it was also wild that the entire crew of ship almost same size etc as Enterprise just went along with Maxwell going rogue/PTSD mode. And yup....this is definitely a significant step on the road to combat trek and battleships rather than starships:(

harrypothead42024

Ok buddy

harrypothead42024

Wow

Derek Orr

That would depend on what episodes you are referring to, if you mean ones that involve battles with Borg and other similar combat based ones...than ya no, sorry thats simply not Star Trek to me....thats Star Wars...literally. Star Trek for many of us is about a more intellectual or science based sci fi that combines elements of adventure and discovery, exploring the unknown frontiers, moral dilemmas and humanity growing into a Utopian future........not really overly focused on counting photon torpedo tubes etc

Derek Orr

Ya It does feel like there was a flubbed line or script typo or something with the way they seem to imply Prefix code and transponder are the same things......and if not, yikes having one code do both those seems very unwise lol. Then again Reliants prefix code in Wrath of Khan is less digits than it takes to unlock my iPhone....

Derek Orr

ya it did not seem like they where rushing too much at that point.

Andrew Duffy

Always confused me from a design point of view that the ability to detect transponder was the same as the ships override system I get it from the storytelling and tension building, so well done that I’m usually able to forget it

harrypothead42024

Also there's no space battles in this episode you're arguing against something that's not at hand

harrypothead42024

What about balance of terror? Or any of the other gung ho crap in tos?

Jovet

They're all spies, they live for war.

Jovet

Little known fact: In English, in the cases of mixed company, lack of specific information, or ambiguity, masculine pronouns apply.

Jovet

@Darek Orr I totally agree with you. I've never been very fond of this episode. The drama is high and compelling, sure, but Maxwell does not strike me as very fit to be a Starfleet captain. Unfortunately, the "no war" stance Star Trek has adopted gets cast aside as Roddenberry's influence subsides, and all the basal "BIG SPACE BATTLES!" people take over.

Jovet

And he only killed one Cardassian. And that traumatized him.

Jovet

@Derek Orr Japanime.

harrypothead42024

So you don't consider most of what are considered to be the best episodes of the franchise to be part of the franchise?

Ron Hubbard Jr

The Cardassians have joined the fun!

Jovet

29:18 "Intercept" in this context means catch up with.

Jovet

26:16 Wow the look on Josh's face. LOL

Jovet

21:24 It really really bugs me that they're trying to "intercept the Phoenix" at only warp 4. 🤦

Derek Orr

Its a story about war and the aftermath of war…star trek isnt a war show or about combat or pew pew stuff. Its about exploring strange new worlds, science, human adventure etc.

Derek Orr

You are kidding right?

marty63026

Should we tell them?

marty63026

Those are 2 A plots..

marty63026

Yeah, took me a while to catch on to that, they don’t give you any indication in this episode other than his subordinates are both called ‘Gil’, it’s clear latter but not here. Sorta like ‘Damon’ for the Ferangi, also equivalent to Captain in Starfleet

Darin Wagner

Yeah, she sure was different. I meant she sucks as a writer and not that she sucks as a person. I can't go into it without spoilers, hence "You'll learn."

s0rd3z

I think the only reason it didn't quite make S tier for me is it's not one of those episodes I immediately want to go and re-watch. I love it obviously and it hits hard concerning the topic they cover and how they approach it. Data's Day for example was an S for me as I always want to go back to re-watch and see all the little everyday things in that. This episode obviously hits harder thematically but I don't feel like there is anything I missed or anything I need to really experience again if that makes sense. I love Chief thouhgh, Miles O'brien IS the most important man in Startfleet after all. "Simple Hesitation!" \o/ Side note; I do agree this is a decent example of how DS9 is to an extent, I think they go further actually but there are still absolutely going to be episodes and themes you do not like.

Derek Orr

🙄

Derek Orr

Umm why ? No one spoiled anything

Derek Orr

Its 24th century in a multi species inter galactic federation…it’s already far too 20th century american with its rank structure…it’s perfectly realistic to imagine none of that officer or CPO stuff is even a thing in starfleet in 4 centuries from now

Derek Orr

Meh whatever. The whole he is enlisted vs he is an officer thing is kinda silly.

Derek Orr

DS9 is an excellent show. Its also the beginning of the end. The point where trek goes all dark and stays there:(

Derek Orr

Whats with the weird nonsensical letter ranking systems?

Phil Ken Sebben

If you add a dice rolling sound effect, it sounds like data is a dungeon master reading the phoenix sensor readings

Derek Orr

That and also if you think about it, the crew of the phoenix would need some kind of buy in to believe in why they should not relieve their captain as they go off into cardasian territory showing off the power of a nebula class starship and committing mass murder. Like no way Riker and the bridge crew would just tolerate Picard flying off the rails and doing something like that unless their was some evidence

harrypothead42024

I'm not sure what you're saying here, but okay.

Derek Orr

No, starfleet and the federation do not make heros out of having to kill

Derek Orr

Pop seems to be new adjective for dramatic impact or something

Derek Orr

Ya but toast in the federation means he gets to go do some gardening in New Zealand like we see a futures shows character do

Derek Orr

Its an excellent episode absolutely, but not really perfect star trek for me as its largely a war or post war story.

Derek Orr

So many people miss that nod

Derek Orr

I mean its a perfectly understandable and reasonable mistake 🤷‍♂️

Derek Orr

Ya HD TNG honestly looks superior to current Star Trek visuals much of the time

Derek Orr

That would be a bit too convenient to have a spy posted and pretending to be a regular officer under the ship captain who met with the federation during this incident and be one of 2 assigned to join his captain on the enterprise

Derek Orr

I never interpreted it that way at all. I felt the Gul was genuinely angry over the unauthorized actions of his aide.

Derek Orr

Thats a hell of a lot of appetizers for DS9

Derek Orr

Gul is a rank like Captain

Derek Orr

I could be wrong but I dont think or see how Obrien was directly tied to the Cardasians..this story and everything else could still happen with them.

Derek Orr

The whole prefix code for the Phoenix being shared to the Cardasians was a call back to starfleet prefix codes from Star Trek 2 Wrath of Khan and Kirk using Reliants prefix code to remotely lower her shields.

Derek Orr

I agree about bringing up Stompie…he wasn’t being a dick and trying to trick or bring O’brien to his side…in fact he was already giving up and realizing he lost…he just needed to reminisce and bond with a fellow war veteran before surrendering to the authorities. Its the equivalent of war vet with PTSD who broke the law, being talked into surrendering peacefully by a cop who is also a war veteran.

Derek Orr

The racism in war towards enemies or former enemies also has a real life tie in for Star Trek. Roddenberry and many of the people involved in the original series where WW2 Vets, hence they chose the name Enterprise and some of the story influences can be seen in the original show. Also the actor who played Scotty, James Doohan was a decorated Canadian veteran who served both in the air force and the army, including being on the ground for D day and wounded (he was missing fingers, it’s usually hidden on screen with a couple of exceptions). And then of particular relevance for this episode, Sulu, George Takei and his family where American citizens…but because they where of Japanese background…they were rounded up and placed in internment camps during the war (unlike white Germans)

Derek Orr

@52:50 its always interesting to hear Americans talk about the dynamic of being the melting pot of the world. Growing up in school, here in Canada the allegory used is that America is the melting pot…everyone goes there and becomes American by melting their old cultures away. Where our approach in Canada is the cultural mosaic, people come here and still fully maintain and celebrate their homeland’s culture without diluting it..while also becoming Canadian.

Derek Orr

A/B plots are what make shows feel more real….more things going on concurrently is a much more realistic dynamic, especially on the federation flagship with over a thousand people on board. The singular narrow focus of unraveling one mystery or following one trail of plot elements from episode to episode is what makes fully serialized streaming era shows so maddeningly annoying at times.

Derek Orr

Meh, DS9 is fairly overrated.

Derek Orr

What was different about her voice? She was the main writer on almost all the best episodes of TNG

Derek Orr

Wtf? Is that supposed to be a joke?

Sam Langanke

Commercial?

Paul

There's so much I want to say but so little I feel I can without spoiling the future, even by inference. What I will default to is simple, I'm extremely glad to be a part of your journey through the best sci-fi franchise humanity has produced, and I'm itching in my seat waiting for the flood of bangers yet to come.

Paul Noad

There is still an A and B plot in the episode. A being Picard's hunt for the Phoenix, the other being O'Brien coming to terms with his feelings toward the Cardassians. It's just that the two are so well intertwined. Neither one comes across as an unnecessary distraction from the other, and each one helps to provide context to the other.

Ramen Nudels

Sir there has been another "DC Fontana" incident.

voxymandias

Wow, that's pretty harsh. I didn't love everything she did, but she was an important (and different) voice in the writers' rooms in the 90s.

James Knight

I have to credit Maxwell's actor for portraying the character so well, almost instantly he is a likeable Captain who is clearly respected by his crew, both past and present, as demonstrated by the Chief. One can easily believe he earned his Captaincy.

Badger

Counting down! Can't wait!

Darin Wagner

Jeri Taylor sucks, gentlemen. You'll learn.

Zack

I really appreciated this episode. My grandfather was in world war II. He never talked about it. He always taught his kids equality and to love everyone, but he couldn't go into any Oriental style restaurants or watch war movies. He tried a couple times but started getting very nervous and left. So I understood what the show was about and appreciated the realism ...IN SPACE

Zack

One of my favorites. Love it.

Moonlander

Fellas, believe me, I totally plan to still be around when you finally get to DS9!-- Lord willin' and the creek don't rise-- And that's like, what, only two more seasons away?

Chris S.

Btw, Jeri Taylor is a woman. No biggie. She’s a great writer though. Im more of a fan of single-plot episodes. The A/B thing is meh. They CAN be good, but single plot episodes are best. There is one coming up that to me is in the top 20 of the entire show that is a single plot story. Im having a memory lapse of the details, but still. 😉

Mike W

100%

tyranusfan

The producers wanted a villain race who could match wits with Picard, carry on highly intelligent conversations while being sinister. They got them with the Cardassians.

tyranusfan

Well even though he was right, he violated direct orders and violated a legal peace treaty, bringing the Federation to the brink of war. Not to mention the unprovoked murder of Cardassian citizens. He’s toast no matter his justifications.

Chris S.

Bingo. Data said they couldn’t penetrate their field. Why would a simple supply ship need that kind of sensor mask? Excellent.

Shortskirtsandexplosions

And here comes my favorite faction in Trek. Hope y'all are on board.

Chris S.

One of the great episodes of the series. “Take this to your leaders Gul Macet……We’ll be watching…” So great!

tyranusfan

Yes I always thought the Glinn was a spy

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

Look at what you've become! Remembering a one off alien race, the Sheliak. And then the only ever mentioned Grizellas?? This is what Star Trek does to you. I don't know why, but it turns normal people into encyclopedias of in-universe trivia. We're not weirdos, it's just what prolonged exposure does!

Timothy Nikiforovs

As one of the takes said, this is very much The Defector of S4, and funny enough the same admiral is in both eps. In a sense it's almost the reverse situation as now it's one of our guys who crossed the border, though obviously it wasn't a defection or staged. One of the great things about this episode is that neither Maxwell nor the Cardassians are portrayed as outright evil or good. Maxwell is absolutely in the wrong, but it wasn't hatred or bigotry motivating his actions, he was a broken man who couldn't move on from the "wounds" of war, and it seems at the end his suspicions at least were justified. As for the Cardassians, you got one guy treating the visit like an espionage mission, one guy who just seems like a normal dude doing his job, and Macet who perhaps knows what his people are doing and mistrusts starfleet, but doesn't seem hellbent on war. There's a whole lot of grey in this episode. The scene in 10 Forward is legendary. The producers finally gave Colm a chance to show his acting chops and he absolutely delivered. I don't think it was necessary to make that scene any darker, it's already pretty moving IMO. Yes, O'Brien joined starfleet, and yes there is an expectation that you may wind up in combat, but it is an exploratory organization. Even on Setlik III in an active combat situation, he said he stunned one of the Cardassians. It says something that even in a war you're trying to take enemy soldiers alive. O'Brien has always come across as a very cool, likeable guy, but hearing him say he never even wanted to swat a mosquito as a kid lets us know he's probably the kind of guy joined starfleet with combat being the last thing on his mind. Even as the Cardassians were killing civilians he was trying to take them alive, and here we are hearing this story of his first time killing a man, and it wasn't even on purpose. He was never going to be the same after that. Picard is really good in this episode, but I still think his performance in the Defector was a bit better, but like in that episode, he had great 1 on 1 scenes with another talented actor(2 in fact). Gunton's role was much more brief, but still memorable. Alaimo stole the show as Macet though. Though I do really love the scene in the transporter room where Picard says hate can become comfortable after enough time, like old leather. That line has always stuck with me. I also like the scene where Riker shoots that look at O'Brien. Riker can be very approachable, very friendly, very casual when it's appropriate, like during poker games. But when it's time to stand on business he stands on business. Between the warship and freighter, Maxwell killed 650 people, and if you add in the science station that could be over 1000. And here he's watching O'Brien chumming it up with this renegade captain like it's any other Friday. That look was straight up saying "not the time or the place, chief". Worf also showed a lot of competence in his scenes. If there were one single rewrite I would add to this episode, I would add in either the transporter room or Maxwell's ready room a line where O'Brien tells Maxwell he just got married. Right after he asks O'Brien how he is would work. The reason being it would add extra motivation to Maxwell deciding to turn himself in. I don't think he was being a dick or toying with O'Brien when he recalled that Stompie had died at Setlik, I think he's just remembering one of many people who died under his command. But if he knew O'Brien was married it might be another factor in his decision. He lost his family, and if a new war starts, O'Brien could end up losing his. If that was the thing that finally made him stand down, to spare others from suffering the same loss he did, I think it could make the episode(Maxwell's character at least) even better.

CM Waters

Keep in mind also with all this: The Enterprise is the flagship of Starfleet, one of the most important listings in all of the fleet. We have no idea what the level of importance Maxwell's pre-Phoenix starship was in comparison, so you could have to make due with what you have. There's a similar kind of crew structuring issue that I mentioned on the Discord channel with a future series.

Collin Freeman

In the earlier seasons of TNG, it seems like they initially thought of O'Brien as a lieutenant (Note the pips on his collar), but as time progressed, for some reason they decided he was a CPO. Chief could be a reference to a rank, like chief petty officer, or a title, like Security Chief, Transporter Chief, Chief Medical Officer, etc.

Collin Freeman

Captain Ben Maxwell: just because you're paranoid about the former enemy doesn't mean you're wrong.

Ryan Caulfield

Definite S-tier episode for me and I knew you guys would feel the same way. Colm Meaney really shines here as O'Brien and he has great chemistry with Maxwell; you really believe they have a history together. The Ten-forward scene has stuck with me ever since I was a kid, but the other dialogue is great too. I didn't notice though until rewatching it with you guys how much of the episode is also carried by what remains unsaid. The slower pace really gives you time to read the characters' looks and body language that goes a long way to reinforcing the narrative. It also shows how much the show has matured over the seasons to trust the audience to fill in the gaps.

Scott Reeves

I've always wondered, if Chief hadn't been such a popular one-off character and so not worked into the show, what this episode would have been like, or if the Cardassians would even have been created and become such a big part of ST.

Michael Metrick

I think ANTHING mentioned about possible futures is a SPOILER! STOP IT!

Michael Metrick

Nah.

Michael Metrick

... as it's continued to change since season 1.

Sixto

Wooohoooo! Glad you guys had those same feelings !

Toysruskiddd

The food replicators were aroound during the Captain kirk era for sure as we saw them periodically. But probably in that era it was strictly for the military and became widespread commercial use in the TNG era. Similar to the internet now vs the internet in the 90's.

Phil Ken Sebben

You can resign a commission and take on a simpler enlisted role

Eric Wilson

lol Ca (as in cake) co

Toysruskiddd

Picard did not know about the weapons until the Enterprise followed Captain Maxwell to the Cardassian ship and got those strange sensor readings. Riker picked up on it as well and he and Picard gave each other a look but said nothing.

Chris

Yeah, the Troi double take was perfect, almost like she heard him empathically murmur the N word for Cardassians under his mental breath.

Dr. Butt Lasers

Not to get into the DS9 shit too much, but I'm here almost exclusively for DS9. This is all just appetizers.

Timothy Nikiforovs

Don't think I ever noticed the weapon arcs on the readout during the battle before the remasters. Just blurry 480p circles

Timothy Nikiforovs

I'msorry?

Timothy Nikiforovs

exactly.

Timothy Nikiforovs

well he is chief petty OFFICER

Timothy Nikiforovs

Not to be confused with Jerry Tailor in the wardrobe department😁

Thomas Cole

Position and rank can be vastly different, depending on the situation in the military. Nominally, ships are commanded by a Captain, but could be a commander or Lieutenant Commander, depending on where the Navy was in terms of personal at the time (this happened in the Royal Navy during WW2 IIRC). He may have been a relief officer on the bridge and the tactical officer was wounded, took the position and manned it for a while till they could get back to base for resupply, but Maxwell thought he did a good job and worked well together, so kept him in that position. And yeah, it didn't really tackle the idea of his crew arguing what would in theory be an illegal order, and the minefield that is, cause that's not what the story is about.

John

I was thinking that through much of the episode. :) Deep Space Nine suffers the same problem as TNG in that the first seasons are comparatively weak, but once it gets its feet under it, it's IMO, the best of the pre-streaming Treks. Don't think I don't love TNG, but I like DS9 more, because of the ongoing story. I think you guys will love it too.

Owen Madden

I.e. D.C. (Dorothy) Fontana. It happened to all of ua.

Column Meanie

Our culture was introduced to the Kardashians during the OJ trial in 94. I remember when I first heard that name (one of OJ’s lawyers) I did a “what now?”

Geoffrey Linehan

There was a moment when Gul Macet tells one of his glinns to go to his quarters and stay there. The glinn looks surprised and gives a quick look to Macet. Macet almost seems to smile at him, as if to say, “congratulations but don’t make it too obvious what we’re doing.”

Elizabeth N

Guys! Keiko is pronounced 'Kay-co', Jeri Taylor is a woman, 'Gul' is a Cardassian rank not a name- Oh, wait. A dozen people before me already told you all that? Never mind ...

Dion James Pitman

I will confess I had that Kardashian/Cardassian take in my head weeeks ago lol

Chris Mickelson

The mischevious Cardassian was trying to look up info on the U.S.S. Lollipop

Tom Occhipinti

Keiko is pronounced Kay-co. 😁

Nolan

Also, holy smokes, the HD treatment on this episode was something, cause I have to watch along on my DVDs and this episode was murky and brown as heck compared to your sync footage.

The Ninth Doctor

Equivalent to a Captain in Starfleet

Nolan

Josh did REALLY well bringing up Jeri Taylor and not gendering HER for about a minute and a half, then he fumbled the ball XD. We got another D.C. Fontana on our hands folks! And so soon after Imzadi too lol.

Tom Occhipinti

Thanks for responding to this, TA. It helps to know what thresholds we should respect. Different reactors tolerate different levels.

Steven Johnson

I had an uncle who fought in Vietnam. He had a major drinking problem after the war, always kept his 1911 pistol that he carried over there close by. Always had smokes, too. He couldn't be around anyone of oriental/Asian persuasion. He literally developed shakes around them. He told my dad he had the urge to kill them on sight. He saw a lot of bad shit in Nam. Did two tours. As Picard said, we can pity him, but we will not dismiss him. He didn't ask for that. He did his duty when his country demanded it of him. There's a nice thin layer of that in there as well, about veterans, and helping them to find their way back into life. As they say "back into the world." The reason a lot of veterans miss combat, even though its awful and draining to your mental faculties, to say nothing of the physical hardships... Is the brotherhood. Even having it described to you in great detail, there is nothing like it in civilian life. No bond that strong. Which is what that scene in Maxwell's quarters really touches on. Maxwell trusts The Chief. Certainly, no spoilers, but TNG is starting to change things a little as we're moving through season 4. It'll be interesting to see what you guys think as we get into the second half of this season, and season 5.

Dark Kronis

nice bit of lore bring back the prefix codes from Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan

harrypothead42024

Perfect Star Trek

wildhunt1973

Gul is a title for the Cardassians. Sorta like Moff in Star Wars.

Jill Barker

I am sure Riker picked up on the power signal of the so called Cardassian supply ship from the way he and Picard exchanged glances. He and Picard immediately realised that Maxwell was correct in his belief that the Cardassians were carrying weapons. The major niggle I have is that Maxwell will pay the price in order to protect the peace. Though he was responsible for the deaths of two crews.

Column Meanie

Chief’s journey is definitely the B plot.

Dark Kronis

season four is becoming the season of Miles O'Brien and im sure your loving it

Collin Freeman

I think Gul in the Cardassian language is more of a title or rank, like captain. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

Greg Quinn

Strong disagree on the rewrite idea of having Riker first mention that it's weird for the location of station and the subspace fields. The problem is doing that would have totally knocked the wind out of Picard confronting the Gul at the end. The pop at the end of Picard's confrontation is far more than what would have been gained.

Josh (Target Audience)

This comment isn’t spoiling anything

Joe Pail

I didn't spoil a single thing.

PIG

"How can you be so obtuse?"

Sam Langanke

Gul is not a name, it's the rank in the Cardassian military which corrresponds to captain in Star Fleet.

Just another Red Shirt

Young crewman O’Brien killed many Cardasians that day, and thus becoming, The Hero of Seklek Three.

Robin Rice

At 36:10, Data says the supply ship had a high-powered subspace field, and Picard and Riker looked at each other -- that's when they knew that the ship was actually weapons ship.

Sam Langanke

Jeri Taylor is the D.C. Fontana of TNG and onwards. You know what I mean.

THE LORE!!!

Gul is a title. Its their equivalent of Captain. The other two were introduced as Glinn. That's the equivalent of Lieutenant or Commander, it's never really said.

Greg Quinn

Maybe tacital doesn't automatically need to be a senior officer or even officer in general in 24th century trek. But yeah...they definitely wanted to avoid the issue of what is the position of his senior officers on this illegal mission, by not having other people from his ship even on screen.

Darren Seal

And with this episode Jeri Taylor makes her mark. Jeri Taylor, Michael Piller one other is responsible for shaping so much of Trek during the 90’s and nurturing talent like Ronald D Moore. The Cardassians are great and Marc Alaimo playing his 3rd role in the show creates a compelling character. Colm Meaney also shows that he is one of the best assets Trek has…

Collin Freeman

Heart of Darkness or Apocalypse Now might be worth watching after this episode, too.

EnigmaticPenguin

Suggestion : Q tier episodes. Only episodes that become your new favourite episode ever can be Q tier, like the recent “Remember me.”.

Jordan Cooper

An excellent episode & reaction. One of my favourites of the series. Jeri Taylor is a she, don’t look her up though, spoilers.

Strife

People really need to not. They need a mod or something who has seen the whole franchise and knows what to delete.

Collin Freeman

Might be time to have the TA watch the Shawshank Redemption. It's long but good.

John M.

Also, this review is exactly as long as Scanners. Feels important.

Greg Quinn

I'd argue that the Chiefs internal struggle with his hate (which he clarifies is as much if not more self hate) is kinda a B plot (and in some ways is the A plot) even though it's so closely meshed with the main plot.

John M.

First came, "When's the next Star Trek reaction?" Then came, "Are you guys going to watch all the movies or going to watch in release order?" Now comes: "You guys are going to love Deep Space Nine." Have it saved as a prompt key. Look forward to pushing it after every reaction for the next year-and-a-half.

Phil Ken Sebben

This is the perfect prologue to DS9, this episode sets up ds9’s niche. You guys loved this.. ds9 love is certain

Josh (Target Audience)

History repeats itself…

Steve Krautkramer

I can't wait for you guys to get into Deep Space 9

Forbidden Donut

I'm biting my tongue VERY hard after this one. If you know, you know. Great stuff!

Strife

Absolute banger of an episode. I have been looking forward to this

Sam Langanke

'But God - that Gul Macet. I hope he suvives this episode so he can come back. He's great!" Remember this.

Tom Occhipinti

Dude

Sam Langanke

The Chief is an enlisted crewman. It makes no sense that he was the tactical 'officer' on the Phoenix which is Worf's position as a lieutenant on the Enterprise. Also Maxwell seems all alone on his ship. But these are very minor complaints. It's an S tier episode of course.

Joe Pail

Btw: Jeri Taylor is a woman.

Joe Pail

You just added another reason why I can't wait for you to start DS9.

Linda Thackeray

I love this one. It still makes me cry.

THE LORE!!!

The Cardassians are my all time favorite Star Trek aliens. Not only the design, but the complexity of their culture. Looking forward to you guys getting to know them.