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PATRON TIER LIST TNG S5E3

🕑 Added 2024-12-02 19:13:44 +0000 UTC

Comments

Tim b

Ah yes, Ro Laren, Riker's favorite ensign. I am not exactly in love with the character, but her episode represents to me a slight change in direction for Star Trek, one that is more focused on continuity, politics and character development

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

Actually, I'd say it's not an important story and not an important character. You could legitimately skip this, though I wouldn't recommend it as it's a great episode.

Smokey C

Michael Piller credited the success of this episode as due to the use of Guinan. "I think Guinan embraces Ro in a very personal way. She basically took Ro by the hand and said she deserves your attention and deserves to be embraced by you. When she took Ro to Picard for that very reason, in essence, she was doing that to our audience. It was not a very easy show to write; it was not until we found that relationship between Ro and Guinan that I was personally satisfied that we really had done something magnificent."

Max Yoder

Ro is such a good side character. She doesn't knock Chief off the top of my list, but she's a solid second to me.

Thicketdweller

I was gonna make a snarky comment about the earring, but I thought I got the point across with just the nose ridges I cannot believe I’m the only person who made that observation over the years and many YouTube videos have proven we’d be correct on that statement But what can I say? I like the Bajoran nose it looks like all the women have been boxing for a long time.

Deep Red

I really like seeing established things questioned. Despite the utopian society that the Federation represents, it interrogates its values and finds the flaws that exist. Gene wouldn't have approved, but it makes the world feel more authentic.

Deep Red

I feel like that's why they added the Bajoran earrings just to make them more distinct.

Thicketdweller

Does a bumpy nose actually indicate a new species Oh well, it’s better than pointy ears Michelle Forbes knocks it out of the park, no matter what she does

James Knight

Okay I had to take a hot minute for how best to phrase the behind the scenes element of preference without spoilers. I'm fine with Yar in Season 1, my issue is what I see as the "Buyers Remorse" with Denise Crosby's intermittent returns since then, which ultimately rub me the wrong way.

Jack Molitor

It’s an S for me, because Ro is so important to expanding the Star Trek universe. An introduction to Bajorans, the scar they’ve suffered, and some of the blind spots our crew and the Federation writ large have to deal with. She scratches an itch Trek has had since the beginning. She’s tough, not afraid to call out anyone in the crew when they don’t know what they’re talking about, or when they’re straight up wrong. Picard literally says at one point, “Ensign Ro has educated me.” He means it. By the end, he's removed some of his naïveté about the universe around him, and he and the crew are better for it. Growth, new character, great Star Trek messages. S.

thebeefmaster

Really.....I don't see it : )

John graziano

Ro looks a lot like the daughter from the episode Half a life s4 e22:)

Banes

For sure. Maybe they should get another person to curate the comments for spoilers.

John Pierce

This is an S for me because I really love Ensign Ro.

Jovet

@Ian Wescott Lots of commentators here are falling victim to exactly that in, unfortunately, a very suggestive and spoilery way. 🤦

Jovet

🤯

Jovet

I like Gene's idea in spirit. But it doesn't really match what we know of human nature. Can't speak for alien races, of course. But I don't believe that there shouldn't be conflict, there just shouldn't be conflict for petty or immature reasons.

Jovet

Even that is.

Jovet

Not just you!

Jovet

Lines on maps mean things, though.

barry vanwieringen

"How convenient that must be for you (the Federation) to turn a deaf ear to those that suffer behind a line on a map." is one example of excellent writing in this episode. Plus the introduction of a guest character that enjoys pushing people's buttons makes this an A tier.

James Knight

Ro's Command Division aka the Best Division! ;)

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

Ro was given more character time in a single episode than Yar was given in a whole season with her name in the main credits. Really not fair to judge Yar off of season 1 writing. She deserved better.

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

It introduces an interesting character and has a fantastic mystery plot that resolves without the Enterprise needing to fire a shot.

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

More proof that the real recurring villain in TNG is a corrupt admiralty promoted beyond their competence.

Matthew McKinnon-Gray

Is it just me, or did that Cardassian’s face look weirdly lopsided?

Matthew McKinnon-Gray

That’s a great point. i never noticed that aspect of Picard before. Maybe it has something to do with felling like an outsider around his father & brother?

Pokeysaurus

I felt like I was getting risque just saying "This is an important episode in the expanded universe" but all this stuff everyone is saying is crazy.

Jeffrey P

Without spoilers, it's clear that they're thinking forward rather than just back at this point.

Aaron Holden

Important story, important character, everything else is a spoiler.

Brian Moore

B for banger, just not quite to the A/S level for me. Ro is freaking awesome though. It’s nice to see someone in starfleet be less than an ideal person like everyone else is. She has her flaws on full display just like her earring, and I like it.

Jovet

The wanton spoilers are getting ridiculous.

Jovet

Usually guts are the things hated 😼

Crankygrandma

I’m trying to figure out what you will rate this. I give it a solid A (today anyway). If you like Ro I think you will give it an S. If not….i don’t think you will go lower than B. It has a lot of what you seem to like based on past ratings. Intrigue, character driven, explores a new race and brings back the name you heard in “The Wounded” : Cardassians. It builds on what we saw before but is also new.

Darren Seal

Such an important episode introducing a great character in Ro, (Michelle Forbes is just great) and a fascinating race. The line about the Bajorans being artist and philosophers before humans could stand upright always intrigued me. Throw in the Cardassians being all devious for good measure. This is A tier for me

Aramis Calcutt

Solid episode!

wildhunt1973

I had forgotten how good this episode was, especially in the greater Star Trek lore. While not an S for me, it was too good to be a B, though I did struggle not giving it that grade. I guess what pushed it into the A range for me was Ro standing up and telling Picard she was going to wear her earring, and Picard being okay with it. Might be a stupid reason to give it an A.

Ally Roth

Before I respond, I just want to say that my original post was meant as a cute little quip. That being said: no one should have to be "one of the good ones" to have the right to represent their culture if to do so is permitted as part of a uniform. Worf is allowed to wear his sash because it is part of his culture, therefore Ro should be allowed to wear her earring because it is a part of her faith, period. Doesn't matter if she's a difficult person. Juxtaposed to American culture, for example, we should never say someone can only wear kippot or hijab if they are "good enough" in the eyes of the dominant culture. Either we allow deviations in uniform for faith and culture or we don't.

Lt Dan I scream

Westly returns from starfleet academy as a female bajorin .. nuff said

Nolan

Worf has proven he is a respectable, dutiful and respectful officer. No doubt as he earned higher ranks and spent time in the uniform, it was apparent that allowing him to represent his culture beyond just simply as a Starfleet Officer would not be a conflict of interests. Ro, on the other hand, has shown she was NOT a good Starfleet officer, in part because of her past as a Bajoran slave, thus conflicting with her status as a Starfleet officer. Once she's proven to be an upstanding officer again, in spite of the conflicting interests her being Bajoran brings, she is allowed to also represent her natve culture as well as that of Starfleet, allowing them to merge.

Nolan

Well, technically, while Ro is in Starfleet, she is not in the Federation and did not grow up in it. Worf did, but his Klingon-ness let him push that conflict box a bit. Ro gets to push it farther, while the rest only respond to it. It's a balance, but I like how 90s Trek maintained it and didn't outright break the box.

Greg Quinn

For some reason I think you guts might hate Ro. Hopefully I'm wrong.

Greg Quinn

Yeah.. it was one of the first breaks with the Gene Roddenberry idea that, baring disease or alien influence, everyone in the federation would mostly usually get along (of course there were other breaks in the past, still, this sets a different tone...).

Ron Hubbard Jr

I’ve been looking forward to you all seeing Ensign Ro’s entry into TNG and the return of the Cardassians.

wildhunt1973

Season 1 Ferengi and Season 4 Trill.

jan

i rate it S because i love Ro!

Sixto

Just… S.

EnigmaticPenguin

Ro brings something to the show that no other character has on TNG: conflict. On that score alone she’s a valuable addition to the secondary cast.

Nolan

DS9 0.25. As it were.

Evan Guthrie

It’s refreshing to see a returning species, especially since so many are forgotten after their debut episodes. What else do you hope to see fleshed out with the Cardassians in the future?

Boggle

This is low 'S' tier for me. It has a lot of the elements that I love the most about Star Trek (space battles, politics, continuing the tradition of Starfleet Admirals all being just horrible people...), wrapped with a good B plot of redemption for a returning character and the addition of more depth with the Cardassian/Federation relationship as a nice icing on top of it all.

Pokeysaurus

In a vacuum this episode is probably a B, but it's just too significant in the universe not to be an A. Also, unlike some episodes that arent directly retconned per se but dont fit the vibe which is later cultivated(Season 1 Ferengi, anyone?), this one still holds up to what comes after.

Darin Wagner

A most significant character is introduced in this episode, iirc. A-tier for me.

DthDisguise

This episode introduces an excellent side character; a firebrand who isn't afraid to speak their mind, regardless of rank, exactly what this show needed to shake things up and keep the main cast on their toes, I'm speaking, of course, about Mr. Mot, the barber.

Forbidden Donut

A lot to like in this episode, including the return of the Cardassians and the introduction of the Bajoran people and the character of Ensign Ro played by the wonderful Michelle Forbes. Another Deep Space Nine-ish episode that lays some solid foundation for the future.

Column Meanie

A fantastic introduction to a character meant to shake things up. Through Michelle Forbes’ performance we see a character unlike anyone else. She has a major chip on her shoulder, she doesn’t dance, and if the show wasn’t from 90’s syndication she’d tell everyone to fuck off. She’s exactly what this crew needs. I just wish the story of this episode served her better.

Jovet

Best part is when he calls the admiral naïve, right to his face.

Ian Westcott

Ahhh, the parade of asshole admirals continues... And I like Ro Laren in the driver's seat way more than Wesley Crusher.

Ian Westcott

I think it's one of those episodes that might be well regarded for what it sets up rather than the specific episode quality.

thebeefmaster

Same as real life military.

Jovet

I took to her just like Guinan did.

THE LORE!!!

The Daleks are definitely the original space Nazis but every IP can have their own.

Jovet

The Kaleds/Daleks are space Nazis.

Jovet

*bite

Jovet

Not yet.

Jovet

Guinan is hilarious in this one.

tyranusfan

It's not interstellar, it's interplanetary. The moon with the Resistance base is in the same system as the planet with the camp. Picard even points out that the Bajoran ship couldn't reach another star system.

tyranusfan

Ro brings some nice fresh blood to the crew. She’s a good, strong character. Michelle Forbes became a favorite of mine here.

Jovet

🤯

Jovet

It's a B in my mind too. Good episode. Not great.

cricketlenny

While the episode overall is good, I mainly like the character introduction of Ro. Specifically the stark contrast of how they treat her arrival compared to any other character, even antagonists, who come aboard the ship. Guinan scenes are the cherry on top of a good dirty tactics admiral episode. B+.

KatWithAttitude

Michelle Forbes is back! They liked her so much in “Half a Life” that they brought her back as Ro Laren. Initially unlikable to most of the crew, she does prove herself, eventually. Another episode I have ranked as “Best of the Best”.

John M.

Great guest performance that touches on a religous accommodation question that every humanist organization like Starfleet needs to deal with eventually. A.

Thomas Cole

Our perspective on the series as a whole as fans does sometimes colour our view on individual episodes. Yeah, it is probably a B episode, but for the introduction on Ro Laren we bump it up in our minds due to her being such a great addition.

ByRikersBeard

It fair to call this a cannon building episode, but it’s still a mid plot, that’s what I gave it a B for Banger.

Thomas Cole

Hey, the Sash is really snazzy. RIker is apparently just the fashion police. Seriously though, you would imagine Starfleet has a uniform variations section, like most modern militaries do for citems of cultural/religious significance, like Sikhs and such.

Thomas Cole

What do the put in the water at Starfleet command? The amount of useless or terrible Flag Officers is just so high.

John

Okay, I see your point, but my point remains that Starfleet preaches about tolerance without practicing it. We've seen a fair amount of it before now, and we'll see a LOT more in the years to come. This is just one example of a system that perceives itself as a lot better than it actually is.

GamingHour2018

not my favorite episode by any means of season 5 its hard to give it an A tier so i'll settle with a high B, you get new character, new species reoccurring enemies and some idiotic Starfleet Admiral as well a quite the scandal

Keith S

Excellent performance by Michelle Phorbes. They must been really impressed by her performance as Timasins daughter. Also introduces the Bajorans another cool new alien race.

The Ninth Doctor

New unlocks: Ensign Ro, Bajorans. Repeat appearance: Cardassians, stupid Starfleet admirals. As a story this is mid (elevated by the twist ending). But as with "The Wounded" before it, this ep advances the world-building and character development - Ro is the first attempt at a "post-Gene" character bringing internal conflict and context to the cast.

Dark Kronis

it always a interesting dynamic when you have main characters actually being hostile to a character, it actually refreshing make them more human and real then the normal enlighten crew we use to, but how do you feel was their attitude justified?

Nolan

I think it's just lack of understanding, the fact she is percieved as a traitor and Riker being harsh on her for that. Thematically, she must prove herself to be a good Starfleet officer on the whole, before she can reintergrate her Bajoran aspects back in. I think it's a less harsh version of Basic training today, where they break down your persona first so they can build you up into a better soldier, before letting you reclaim those aspects once you've proven you are.

Nolan

And yet it's the cause of so much down the line.

rear adm. crackbiscuit

Surprised how high this ep rates. I mean, it’s fine but not spectacular. Ro is awesome of course, but the mystery doesn’t pack much punch, and interstellar travel at impulse power? There’s enough good stuff for me to bring it to a B, but I’m clearly a minority.

Nolan

Michelle Forbes is back. So impressed were the producers with her single scene in "Half a Life" they gave her this meatier role after. And she easily proves what a capable actor she is.

Nolan

This is argueably, THE most impactful episode of 90s era Trek. It's never explicitly stated in universe, but the ball is off and rolling here.

Joe Concepts

Here we have that very interesting contrast between Picard and Riker. Though he initially feels just about as upset as having Ro there at first, he sees something and doesn't give up on her. It makes me think of how with Barclay, it was Picard again who didn't want to give up on him. It seems Riker's responsibilities include discipline and keeping the crew in line, and he has no patience for anyone who may rock the boat through incompetence or outright disrespect the ship. You can see his perspective in both cases, maybe, but he can have a quick temper while Picard is calm and cool.

Joe Concepts

Ro was a very nice step outside the typical "Starfleet is my life and I love it" character, just to make the universe a little less black and white. Giving her a difficult back story and making her be from outside the Federation is a good excuse to do that.

Joe Concepts

Question: Were you both surprised that the Cardassians actually returned, and even got some more back story?

James Knight

Ro > Yar.

ByRikersBeard

Points for Ro and the introduction of the Bajorans, but it’s a pretty middle of the road plot.

Deep Red

Forgot they brought back Michelle Forbes so quickly. The thing I appreciate the most about Ro as a character is similar to Barclay. By showing a character on the Enterprise who doesn't work well with others, we see another side of what life on a starship could be like. Unlike Barclay though, Ro actually doesn't want to get along. I live for the #drama

John

I'm one of the few people's who's going to give this an S-rating, because it introduces the Bajorans, and I love the Bajorans. The episode itself is solid, if not super remarkable, although it does have some present-time implications, like terrorism vs freedom fighting, and whether or not to get involved in struggles against oppression against those who are informally foes, but formally friends. My big complaint against the episode is that once again Starfleet shows its intolerance. Ro is wearing an earring that has a spiritual and cultural significance to her people, and Riker forces her to take it off. Starfleet does this a lot. They claim to be tolerant of differences, but they aren't really. See the various ways Worf's culture is constantly derided and the "superiority" of the human way of life is demonstrated. Starfleet is intolerant of anything that doesn't conform to human norms.

Matt Everkoul

As a 7th grader, I wore my blue science & medical TNG uniform to middle school occasionally - and was picked on quite a bit for doing so, especially after I added a Bajoran clip-on earring to the ensemble, which I picked up at a Trek convention following this episode. And yes, I turned out zesty!

Jeffrey P

We seem to have crossed a seminal point for Star Trek. We've had episodes in the past where they've revisited themes and characters from other episodes but we've been transitioning to a point where they start building lore. (Or building "LORE!") First with the Klingons, then with the Cardassians and Romulans. And now hints of more Cardassian atrocities.

Matt Newmark

Imagine having come from S4 and walked into S5 with the bar that was previously set... And then you see just a hint of what's to come in S5. How can you not love Star Trek?

Paul Rymer

Ro is a great character; this whole episode is a universe-building one so I hope you paid attention!

Phil Ken Sebben

Maxwell did nothing wrong

Connor Fallon

So i really like this episode. Michelle Forbes, who i'm sure you remember as Dr Timicin's bitchy daughter in "Half a Life", plays the role of a shady and aggressive "is she friendly? is she trying to sabotage us?" troubled officer so well. I like that it shows that not everyone in starfleet is good at being another cog in the great machine. Yet she still comes through in the end.

JGoss

Admiral Kennelly is another in the long line of Awful Trek Admirals, but he's still no Haftel. F that guy

JGoss

That one Cardassian has the face of a Picasso painting

Phil Ken Sebben

These Bajorans and their conflict with the cardassians, I sure would like to know more about that. A

Tom Occhipinti

Michelle Forbes's performance in "Half a Life" never struck me as particularly note-worthy, though I like her as Ensign Ro. But when you guys praised her in "Half a Life," I had to smile, knowing you'd appreciate her return in this episode.

Eric Traylor

Another amazing A-tier episode that introduces a new great character while also introducing the Bajorans and more of who the Cardassians are and how they operate

David Wayne Fox

Deja Ro.

Collin Freeman

Michelle Forbes returns from Half a Life in a new role. I enjoy how this series starts to build out its universe in terms of the new species and their history. A for me.

Ally Roth

Worf gets to wear a fancy sash but suddenly earrings are out of pocket?

Jeffrey

Boy, Star Trek admirals kind of suck, don’t they?

THE LORE!!!

The Cardassians are back. And now we find out why everyone in the show seems to hate/distrust them before: they're literally space Nazis. Great characters, but still space Nazis.

Timothy Nikiforovs

Now you know why so many people were mentioning Michelle Forbes in Half a Life. Also it seems like you can't go 10 episodes in this erries without running into another Badmiral. Ro is a unique character, and she provides a good introduction to the Bajoran people. The Cardassians also return and are decidedly less sympathetic. Maybe Maxwell was right after all?

Gregory

It took a bit for me to like Ro as a character. She’s sort of the first person we see who doesn’t want to be on the Enterprise, who doesn’t want to be a part of Starfleet. It rubbed me the wrong way when I first watched this episode, but like with many things Star Trek, it’s all about perspective.