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Chapter 60

🕑 Added 2024-08-23 04:00:07 +0000 UTC

Comments

Chris Britt

Angharad is such an entitled little child. I'm disappointed she seems to have learned nothing from her injury

Aguido Horatio Davis

I think Ferranda’s position will be typical: no, hell no, you’re a lackwit, get out. At least we get to see whether Angharad can indeed lead a scratch group of dregs as well as she thinks she can?

Michael Meikle

I think that Tristan tells Angharad that Isabel conspired with him to kill Remund, and that finally shatters her idealized "cute noble gf" vision of Isabel to reveal the manipulative mind-warper beneath.

Aguido Horatio Davis

Specifically exempting Lady Tredegar from having to make good decisions because of how she was raised and trained is, well, I'm not sure what a politer word than moronic would be, that is still truthful. "SHE JUST WANTED TO LIVE!!!!!!11!!!1", forsooth. It looks even worse now that I know her father at least *tried* to teach her how to look at and deal with realities. But she's going to get there, she's just going to get there the long way.

Kazz

Song caused the thirteenth more damage than any of the four. Her dumbass sense of leadership got a wake up call after she was at her lowest and got a spectacular dose of reality from Wen. Song could have been more honest with Angharad just like Wen was with her, instead chose to constantly control and manipulate her. All these four are broken in different ways. Specifically hating on Angharad because of how she was raised and trained is moronic.

Cotillion

I wonder at the duration of Isabel’s powers. Maybe they are still in effect, even after death. It’s the only excuse I can make for her.

Lucy Severine

Honestly, Angharad? Yes. You deserved that particular bit of manipulation. Song's leadership abilities are by no means perfect, but she made the correct call there. When Angharad left the 13th, she was a fricking ticking time bomb, and literally only the time she spent with that other set of friends allowed her to heal. If she didn't have that, she'd have been in a *much* worse place, thrown in with a brand new set of stranger cabalist- probably a dregs group- who would have not looked out for her like Ferranda's crew. And she would have never let that healing happen at the time if her completely one dimensional sense of "honor" demanded she set off on her own. Walk straight back to a manipulator you are 100% informed is a threat? Get treated with kid gloves until your decision making is better.

Lucy Severine

Frankly nothing that Angharad did during *or* after that period screamed "I am making responsible decisions". She would have *fully* tanked her own career, and Song made the right call that allowing her an "untainted" space where she could heal was more important than The Truth. Angharad is more functional *now* and making better decisions *now* but that's literally in part because she got that period of healing and room to make mistakes without burning down!

thebishop8

I thought it was pretty clear that her suspicions were her motivation.

Aguido Horatio Davis

Her issues are both. Both are bothering her equally. She’s shouting about both. I wonder how much it bothers her that the Thirteenth will be holding the bag for the infernal forge disappearing into Malan.

Mark W

It's funny because Angharad is the only person in the 13th that Song could 'manage' and manipulate. Tristan and Maryam have enough understanding of people that they never bought into Song's pretensions of leadership, and only ever saw the person who's motivated to be acknowledge the leader. But Angharad just completely bought into what was presented. She didn't even suspect that everyone was having conversations behind her back about 'Boy, she was more racist then usual today, how annoying'. Song and Maryam, Maryam and Tristan talking how to deal with her. Angharad did offer her insight to Song about Tristan 'never knowing good masters', but even though Song promised to do so for Maryam, she never seems to have gotten around to having a frank discussion with Angharad about how her views about the world were actively rejected by the rest of the 13th. Because Song was managing her, the only cabal member she could actually control, and not need cut deals with. Even as Song grew to accept Tristan and Maryam as actual peers, she was basically forced into it because they both demanded that respect from her. It's a sticking point for Maryam and Tristan too, Maryam gets pissed with Tristan tries to manage her rather then be straight with her. Ironically, the one person in the 13th that doesn't 'manage' Angharad is Maryam

Evri

But Angharad’s main problem isn’t that Song killed Isabel; it’s that she continued to lie about it for months afterward. Her issue is that she *didn’t* get all the facts the morning afterward, and in fact didn’t get any facts at all until Song’s hand was forced.

Aguido Horatio Davis

If I was blind drunk and witless, and somebody talked me down off the cliff edge by telling me half-lies and lies designed to manage me, so that I didn’t fall off and wreck myself on the fifty foot drop. …yeah, I wouldn’t be running my mouth about HOW DARE THEY when I sober up the next morning and get all the facts, complete with TikTok video. I would indeed be upset and embarrassed at the stupid blackout drunk, and possibly really enraged at whoever spiked my drinks, or told me that cliff-jumping is fun. But not at whoever did what I was too lackwitted to do for myself.

Omega

Chapters like these continue to prove Wen right about Song’s leadership chops. They can continue to get better and eventually there will be something there but right now she’s really just above a complete disaster in that area. This is why EE’s writing is good, you can see why Song would be a bad leader back when Wen confronted her and while she’s made some strides since she is still just as hapless in many ways which is extremely realistic. The timeframe elapsed wouldn’t have allowed her to change enough to handle this situation well, so she’s stuck with the consequences of her old habits well after that talk. Definitely a learning moment for Song I bet. Funnily enough the original talk with Wen had Song get off pretty light despite how problematic her leadership was and seeing that come back now is very in line with the painful growth every other character is going through.

Notcreepycreeper

Idk...Angharad isn't wrong. There really wasn't any reason to kill Isabel at that point, they really were almost done with the trial. Much earlier with Isabel playing the brothers off each other and Angharad it might have made sense. I think Angharad saying Song did it so she could have her to herself (team-wise) hits the nail on the head. Song has been changing, coming to realize her team really are people not just automatons for her to force in the direction she needs. But she hadn't had any of that character development on the island. Then Song did send her to join the party of a second person who'd shot Isabel. All she had to do was tell this truth at that point, it's not like angharad would have lost much - who wouldn't take one of the best fighters at Scholemance onto their team?

Omega

Finally someone with some logic, everyone stops being able to think rationally about Angharad when we get chapters like these and for once it is Song who is unambiguously wrong even if Angharad’s issues are also of her own making.

Kazz

She has the most powerful contract by far among the group. If she was far more manipulative and smarter, she would find a way to dispose off the 13th and become the Queen of Malan.

Kazz

Except Song *was* a f**king liar and absolutely not to be trusted. She was a total and complete clueless hack who treated Tristan like shit while believing she knew and understood everything. Thank the Sleeping God for Wen and his dose of reality.

Kazz

Except Song's decision-making wasn't exactly stellar was it? She treated like shit when Angharad treated him with a certain level of respect. It was only after Wen gave Song a brutal dose of reality that she started to get on the right path. Song had no business making decisions for others when her entire concept of "leadership", as Wen explained to her, was based on being able to "lead" servants forced to obey her instead of three talented, unhinged cabalists. i.e. Clueless hack makes the decisions for clueless idiot. Angharad has every right to be hopping mad.

Kazz

Meh it was never clear what Villazur's motivation for killing Isabel was. Her suspicions were accurate, she just didn't see the whole plot.

General Corteau

And Angharad's anger here actually is a bit reasonable, because it's directed not at the initial killing of Isabel, but at the continued manipulation afterwards...

General Corteau

I actually agree with Angharad on this one ... Song definitely treated her like a fool. And deservedly so on the Dominion — who the hell runs back to somebody after being told they're being supernaturally manipulated by them — but after the thing was done and she (and the other trial-takers) were safe the right thing to do would have been to come clean then and there. The primary reason for not doing so afterward was to retain Angharad, and then everything became abject manipulation.

Kazz

An absurd characterization. Someone whom you considered a friend and trusted repeatedly treated you like someone to be managed and controlled through lies. Angharad for all her myriad flaws, has the right of it here. Song manipulates and manages everyone around her with no issues but she killed someone Angharad was crushing on for being a dangerous manipulator and it isnt actually clear that by the end of it Ruesta was even using the contract on Angharad. Why Song did it is obvious - keeping the cabal together and by extension herself in the running for Watch success. It was fundamentally and obviously self-serving. Angharad has spent all her life being rigidly trained in a very narrow Pereduri code of honor and violence. It is a not surprise that she is how she is. She is also the character evolving the most among them all (along with Song actually) and that speaks to *her* character. The Angharad hatred on this board has far stripped any semblance of logic.

Jacob Burton-Edwards

Walking in and stabbing them is a valid strategy when you're that good at stabbing.

Runaway_Cactuar

Like I've said, she's gotten better over the books, but that doesn't erase the symphony of stupidity from the prior arcs.

Benjamin Mages

Honestly the biggest problem right now isn't even Isabel, the problem was Song concealing the truth from her in order to manipulate her. She wasn't a person with agency to be respected, she was a tool to be guided so Song could use her. At least this is her perspective on the matter, Song's actual intentions were more charitable than that.

Fusckurself

Okay now it feels like that baby is coming. GLHF Errata

Brendan Murphy

I'm hoping Angharad either gets a vision quest/layer bullshit walking her through the failure of her ideology and the fact that Isabel was a dangerous monster or a very strong talking to from Osian on the same subjects

Ryu

Always a marvel to read, Angharad as a character. I like to think that it’s like everything that could’ve gone wrong in the conversation between Song and Tristan had gone wrong here instead. Makes it all the more interesting it’s written in Angie’s pov. The thing is, it’s always one sided with her. Whereas Tristan interrogated Song’s motives, Angie judged her actions instead, I reckon that was why Song got angry. She never really stop to think about how others think, never even tried, she didn’t even try to listen to what Song has to say here. “Am I a child, Song?” Well, she sure as hell act like one, even though she’s far from simple. Song did do her wrong, but she did it with the right motives. It was an honest mistake. One which she admitted, and tries to make up for. Only, Angharad didn’t let her, instead taking issue with her “resolute tone” One thing is clear though, Song’s not gonna be the one to win her over. Only makes her development in the future all the more curious.

Markos El-Far

Remember, Song warned her multiple times that Isabel was a threat. She chose to ignore that and continue to be manipulated further. With that, she was fair game to be managed by others as well.

thebishop8

Yeah, I almost forgot about that, but saying that Isabel only wanted to live isn't actually true, is it? She took on the risk of the second trial because she wanted to get rid of Remund.

Joe Rachman

Put her in the right situation and she does well. When she met all the Malani nobles for dinner she sussed out a plot against her - though her proposed solution was just to walk into it and sword them - and she played Lord Gule beautifully.

Benjamin Mages

As for where she can go after this? Any number of places. When she returns to the school, sure her reputation is not great, but she is one of the best student fighters so when she recovers she will probably have several options. As for helping her get her hands on the forge? Yeah she might need her team's help with that, but even if they do I don't see that being enough to rejoin them afterwards.

Benjamin Mages

Yeah... that's giving up the infernal forge. If they didn't think it was the right thing, they'd just tell the watch about it.

Aguido Horatio Davis

Hey, what happens when someone tells Angharad about Isobel arranging for the murders?

Avid_Appletree

When it comes to social situations she is definetly a lackwit. I am suprised Song did not say as much, they are way beyond politeness.

Jacob Burton-Edwards

Where else can she possibly go? Nobody else will care enough about her to help.

Jacob Burton-Edwards

My guess is she knew she hit Isabel, not whether Ferranda also did first.

Oliver Schell

That's not how I expected that conversation to go at all. I'm stoked to find out how Angh will fit in the 13th now!

TrashedPanda

I do not even think it was all that condescending. Yes it appears shitty looking at it from the outside but the Watch is a military organization and Song is a officer and it is her duty to make decisions like that. She did what she had to do to keep them all alive on the island and then keep them as an effective fighting force once they became the 13th, and for the most part she succeeded despite how difficult Angharad has made things.

Draken09

She sees the truth of things... but still needs to see it in the first place.

Runaway_Cactuar

"Am I a lackwit?" The correct answer is "Yes". Other than this book, Anghie has been a prize idiot blundering and plowing her way through plot points like a runway isekai Truck-kun. While it is a dick move, Song was right to manage her.

thebishop8

The thing is, Angharad knew it could have been either Song or Fernanda, and chose to be only suspicious of one of them. Saying that Song manipulated her doesn't absolve her of responsibility for that choice. Maybe Song should have been honest with her, but Angharad should have been suspicious of both of them even without that.

Lena

On one hand everyone has a point in Song's condescending way of choosing for her but on the other hand, I can't help but agree with you. Angharad really has behaved like a child sometimes. BTW, cant Song's eyes see anything? They can't see through a pesky thing like smoke?

TrashedPanda

I am glad the truth finally came out and they had this conversation. I am finding myself coming down pretty firmly on Song's side in regards to this whole ordeal. With Angharad's notions of "honor", more superior than thou attitude, and general just god awful decision making I find myself thinking that Song probably had the right idea to try and "manage" her in the way that she did.

Rune of Doom

I suspect the 13th won't just "give up the infernal forge", they're going to help her, because they collectively decide it's the right thing to do.

eeee

In her words, Song states in the chapter Angharad first confronted her that if she hadn't claimed it was her who shot Isabel, Angharad would be forced to consider Ferranda did it and not stay with the Thirty First. Also, Maryam deduces that having Angharad stay with the Thirty First would let Song use her later, which Song admits. Regardless of other considerations, it's undeniable that Song thought she knew what was best for Angharad and also planned to use her later by manipulating her through this implicit lie, sending her to the Thirty First when she knows it's not what Angharad would want if she knew the truth. Song herself doesn't deny her arrogance here, treating Angharad like a child, because she knows it's true. That's not to say that Angharad was fair to Song in that confrontation, but Song's actions are definitely dickish.

Quinn

I mean, I can see why Song didn't tell Angharad about it, Angharad was so busy saying everything Song said was tainted/ a lie. and if Song didn't want to fight a lost cause (in her words). Then telling her Ferranda was just as complicit would just be "passing the blame", and not worth attempting to prove (without outside help, which would be its own death sentence)

eeee

Dick move on Song's part. Not the shooting Isabel part, but keeping her in the dark and then letting her think Ferranda had no part in it, because Song thought she knew what was best for Angharad and that she could probably get some use out of Anghard in the future, dick move and condescending as hell.

Aguido Horatio Davis

Song is her friend, though. And the lives at risk weren't just Angharad's, if Isobel Ruesta were permitted to continue on the Dominion. And the suicidal charge through the layer was no doing of Song's. You know, breaking Angharad's father out of Tintavel, or locating where he really is, would go a lot smoother with the Thirteenth on side.

Benjamin Mages

I must admit I'm not really seeing a world where Angharad actually officially joins the 13th after this conversation. Something quite drastic would have to change the status quo. I'm not even sure giving the infernal forge up to Angharad and not telling anyone about it (hypothetically) would be enough to bridge that gap.

primus

Definitely enjoyed this chapter’s early publication!


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