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B2 – Chapter 20

🕑 Added 2024-09-17 14:00:02 +0000 UTC

Comments

Jailed Cinder

Thanks for the chapter! Hmm... Not sure how I feel about the use of mind magic on criminals... I know it's being reserved for rapists and murderers, and I suppose it's better than indefinite incarceration in certain ways, but... I don't know. Messing with people's minds/personalities just feels iffy to me. As for Misty... Well... I guess this is more or less the only way Lyn was going to get the Mage core in a peaceful manner, seeing as how Misty was seemingly dead set on keeping her core/power in order to live forever and whatnot. And, as much as I might've found it more satisfying for Misty to work through her many issues, rekindle her friendship with Lyn, and eventually give up the Mage core willingly, I recognize that it both would've likely taken too long for the narrative being told and that it likely would've gone against all of the foreshadowing that Misty was going to try to ger 'her Lyn' back again. All that said, I'm at least a little relieved that she didn't have to die/be executed like Volio. (Although I suppose she's technically suffered identity death, but... same soul and whatnot, and she's going to have a MUCH better upbringing this time around, so I'm not too bothered by that.)

Seras Streams

So to address these items...it is fantasy, it's not meant to be totally in the realm of realism. Just like how in the real world, we don't have a single deity who is in the flesh throwing around fireballs and lava fountains and making trillions of tons of food appear overnight. It is not going to be realistic because it is not realistic. It is a world with magic. Now, all of your critiques above are valid ones, and I don't want to refute them because you do make some excellent points. But I will comment on them. (1) Yes, the council is filling up slowly. She had her 'main people' aka Steward, Spymaster, Chancellor, and Marshal - they are responsible for filling their 'sub-cabinets'. She's been hands off in that regard. (2) Oh yeah, it is unethical. But Lyn would rather brain-wipe the criminals to prevent their criminality than imprison them for who knows how long (possibly fomenting dissent in the prisons) and hope they change. Sure, it is dystopian and from a perspective of one of those criminals might be despotic - but she is trying to make a utopia which will require some fucked up stuff to happen. (3) The biggest point to look at is the question of morality (in this section, at least). Lyn has stated on several occasions that she is the singular deity of Ghomar and will decide the morals. She is a literal god-empress of an empire who will force her vision of utopia on people. Even rebellion in the future would be highly unlikely, because she could just crush them. To her, and those who stay 'in line', it will be utopia. To those who dissent? Well, not utopia for them. For the whole 'Lyn providing all basic needs' she is not going to be doing that the whole entire existence of The Eternal Empire - only to a point (which is covered in later chapters by her and Lawrence talking logistics). To cap off - I fully understand your criticisms of Lyn's plans and how she is being portrayed. But, this is a fantasy story with imperfect people who are doing what they think is right - and the MC happens to be a goddess reborn that is basically going to be unstoppable down the line. "A myopic state of life accompanies every utopia for the outsiders," is a phrase that comes to mind when discussing this - yes, the outsiders, naysayers, those unsatisfied with life on Ghomar under Lyn's rule will find themselves not experiencing a utopia of egalitarian ideals - such is the price for her vision of a world.

Foxner

My mind has also raised some alarm bells for scientific realism, but I've got nothing concrete. But it's very possible the story hasn't really been following conservation of energy (like for example, the magic mirrors probably aren't really following the inverse square law) and the 2nd law of thermodynamics (entropy must always increase in the universe--the universe must go from order to disorder). But tbh, its a fantasy story that's stayed very unscientific, I don't think this concern is important.

Foxner

Loving the story so far, but I feel the story is starting to increasingly diverge from realism and I want to voice these concerns to make you aware of it Seras. (1) Lyn’s council should have been filled up already. She wants a meritocracy, and she has 90,000 citizens aswell as 2 vassal kingdoms. Surely, amongst all those people, there is a skilled person willing to join Lyn’s council. And worse, they have had months (I assume) to find someone. Plus, just to top it off, Lyn has just been finding random people around her and assigning them council positions with not much and some cases no test of skill. (2) Using mind spells on criminals is unethical and moraly wrong. Sure, a consequentialist would argue that it's ethical because it leads to a net positive, but that is the same horrific logic that was used to justify the genocide committed by Nazi Germany and their philosophy of eugenics (they argued it was for the betterment of humanity). I believe the ethical boundary starts at letting criminals make the decision for themselves whether they desire incarceration or for their autonomy and self to be altered. But that is the edge of the ethical grey zone. Philosophically, it could be argued that Lyn is committing genocide on all criminals when she forces their minds to be altered. A person’s thoughts, desires, and even tendencies toward crime are part of their identity. Altering their mind could fundamentally change who they are, essentially erasing the previous person and replacing them with someone else who conforms to societal standards. This also removes a criminals ability to choose to reform themselves through personal effort, self-reflection, and rehabilitation. Combined with Lyn’s paternalism, and this might significant limit people's ability for personal growth. There is also a slippery slope for Lyn here. Over time, what qualifies as a “crime” could be expanded. Today it might be used for violent crimes, but tomorrow it could be extended to political dissent, deviant beliefs, or unpopular opinions. This could lead to an Orwellian society where minds are controlled to ensure social harmony at the cost of individual freedom. (3) Lyn’s utopia is unrealistic and likely impossible for a number of different reasons (most of which im not going to get into because this is long enough and I don'thave time to write a paper about the possibility of a perfect utopia). First off, absolute power corrupts. This is inescapable and inevitable. It might be instant, or it might take billions of years, but it WILL happen, magic or not. The most well-intentioned individual is subject to personal biases, fallibility, and emotions. And often times in real life, there are no perfect solutions. Most importantly though, Lyn is fallible and not omniscient, and there is no check and balance to her power. Lyn also removes everyone's agency. No matter how benevolent Lyn is, people wouldn’t have a meaningful say in how society operates, which undermines freedom and self-determination. The human desire for autonomy and participation in decision-making would be suppressed. There is also a high likelihood of a rebellion, one that is equally as well intentioned. Historical examples suggest that societies governed by autocrats, no matter how benevolent initially, eventually breed dissent because of the lack of shared power. Lyn has inherent biases. She might favor certain policies, groups, or individuals based on her values, experiences, or unconscious preferences. This would create inequality, as some people might feel more aligned with her vision, while others are marginalized. Additionally morality is subjective, and what Lyn considers "utopia" might not be seen the same way by others. People have diverse values, cultures, and desires, so a singular vision of a perfect society is unlikely to satisfy everyone. Economically speaking, if Lyn provides for every person's basic needs, this can lead to stagnation and a lack of motivation to contribute to society meaningfully. Philosophically, there is the problem of paternalism. A ruler, no matter how well-meaning, could fall into paternalistic patterns, making decisions they believe are best for everyone. This removes the right of individuals to make their own choices, even if they are bad ones. Many philosophical frameworks (such as those rooted in liberalism or existentialism) argue that true human flourishing comes from the freedom to make mistakes and learn from them. Additionally, in a system where everything is provided to a person, the struggle and adversity that often leads to personal growth and achievement might be eliminated. This could lead to a superficial kind of happiness where people are comfortable but not necessarily fulfilled or challenged.

Darius Sanguna

Death of Identity is still Death, the Person you're talking about is NOT Misty. At best you could call her Misty's Twin, unless of course her memory is fully restored. And since Misty is dead, there is no winning for her.

Aclys

I mean on the one hand I agree, Misty died as a person even if her body and soul is getting a new chance at life. But then she willingly took that risk and by and large she got a pretty much ideal outcome given how miserable her current life was. She wanted to one day find new love and not be alone, now she will have a loving family raise her without the trauma of her past as a burden, a dungeon core at birth and the education she will get means she will probably be an even stronger mage as an adult than she was before with the mage hero core. All in all it is an absolute win for her.

Seras Streams

Umm…good question. I don’t want to spoil anything. I’ll just say “the epilogue looks at the empire through the lens of the Baxter children” and leave it at that.

Darius Sanguna

Is it actually Misty that gets time in the Epilogue or is it just her former body that is now occupied by a new person?

Seras Streams

I understand. She was meant to be a tragic foil to Volio. She does have some time in the Epilogue

Darius Sanguna

gotta say I'm not really happy with how things with Misty ended. I was already concerned about how her story would end when she deluded herself into thinking that Lyn was "dead",. Turns out, not great. I'd hoped for her to find happiness, but instead she got killed off. (death of identity is still death and Trish wiping whatever might remain def qualifies)

Jeanean

Honestly, even if they "just" make minimal personality changes to "convert" criminals, it feels like it could result in some seriously bad PR, especially since they seem to plan to do it in secret. I would suggest a different option. A Mind spell that puts a VERY strong suggestion into the targets mind that causes intense and VERY obvious feelings of digust, a bit of fear, and dizziness at performing the actions associated with their crime, while being entirely open about the existence of that spell. It would still be pretty extreme and a treatment reserved for the absolute worst, but with the effects being so open and obvious people will have a much harder time accusing Lyn of mindcontroling Criminals and turning them into spies or some non-sense like that. It would also leave the option to actually change and become a better person for all of those who where victims of one of a million possible circumstances, as well as just not commiting any crime in the first place for those who were falsly accused.

Seras Streams

It's up to your imagination. I tried to keep descriptions of non-Lyn characters pretty minimal so that people could fill in the visuals.

John Anastacio

I didn't know Ben had a beard. I like that he has one; very dad (and daddy) of him. I wonder which of the other male heroes are also bearded.

Seras Streams

She gets a chapter in the epilogue all to herself :)

Loganlee20

I didn't expect Misty's story to be ended so suddenly. In the end she had an attitude and obsession similar to a certain stalker we knew... And suffered a similar fate, although less cruel.

Seras Streams

It’s a fitting end to her story arc, methinks

Wargen

Daaaamn, full on Reversion + Tabula Rasa'd? Misty got what she deserved and maybe what she needed too.

Seras Streams

As they say… Time’s a bitch

Duke of Coffee

*Misty used time.* Suffers backlash damage.


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