Decoding The Gurus
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Daniel Dennett episode discussion thread
🕑 Added 2023-02-02 02:06:40 +0000 UTCHey everyone,
We finally got the Dennett episode down to size and should be appearing on the main feed shortly.
Quite a lot of content on the cutting room floor as Matt and I got into various arcane discussions about evolution and cultural memes, as such I hope some of the later discussions don't feel too disjointed. It did not feel right to inflict an almost 4hr episode on people.
Fair to say that we both liked Dennett more than other figures we've covered and don't find too much objectionable.
Good to have these kind of figures covered from time to time and a nice palette cleanser ahead of Bill Maher & Dave Rubin.
Feedback & comments welcome!
Comments
brianshmrian
Nobody invented the hand axe? The next thing Dennett's going to claim is that nobody wrote the song "Love Take Me Down to the Streets"!
Dylan
Probably off topic for this discussion but at the beginning of the episode you guys were waxing about ai podcasting so I wanted to make sure you knew about Lexman. Here is a good sample of this artwork https://twitter.com/lexman_ai/status/1619968660730159104?s=20&t=HVjbrmUweA1TB5f_8O-6ZA
Paul Bowman
Useful to have these contrast studies to throw the main characters (Peterson, Weinsteins, etc) into relief by contrast. While I am much more on the Stephen Jay Gould side of the "Great Meme Debate", I agree that whatever differences I have with Dennett's postions, they are on matters of substance. I think for a lot of toxic gurus there's a style/substance inversion - the style is all there to conjure up the illusion of substance and it takes cognitive effort (and some knowledge capital) to deconstruct that to see that, in fact, there's no "there" there. While Dennett is a skilled presenter, there's never the feeling that the substance of the argument isn't front and centre. So much for form. Possibly even more important is the content, or affect. Dennett's affect is generally positive, even optimistic or upbeat. There's no dark invocations of cosmic threats to our civilisation and way of life, no imputed sinister forces at work about to snuff out our freedom of thought or action, etc, etc. It really does bring home how much the content of the toxic gurus is above all about channelling resentment. There's a wonderful bit from Deleuze's "Pure Immance" on Nietzsche's dramatis personae that evokes this affect very poetically: "Spider (or Tarantula): It is the spirit of revenge or resentment. Its power of contagion is its venom. Its will is a will to punish and to judge. Its weapon is the thread, the thread of morality. It preaches equality (that everyone become like it!)"
elcid
If Chris was a different flavour of anthropologist he may feel compelled to weigh in on that statement…
Graham Clarke
I don’t get why Dennett looks at Hand Axes and decides if you have many of them it must be for signalling to women. Surely the signal here is “keep away or I’ll smash you with an axe”. Just as some people have a large collection of guns or knives.
TheRealEricWeinstein
I concur
Jesta
Yes, I agree. Happy to have more discussion of some of the complex issues.
TheRealEricWeinstein
Great episode. It’s fun seeing Matt get so excited about evolution.
Rasterisk
Bill Maher & Dave Rubin?! Wow, I'm so sorry, but also, thank you. Excited to hear your thoughts on Dennett, who I think of as one of the better atheists, and should contrast with Maher, one of the shittier ones.
Tom McCool
Good grief, as if Prager U wasn’t bad enough, the Peterson clan will foist their ‘ideas’ on a loving audience. The plan to go one step beyond Austin U. Won’t Bari be upset? I give them credit for enhancing the grift; their audience will be online arguing that they’re credentialed! Smarter! More whatev! Joe will be able to get more people on to spread miseducation not just misinformation. Sheesh.
Christopher Kavanagh
Appreciate that but sometimes it is also that we don't want to inflict it on other people. It might not seem like it but we do care when we are being too speculative. Nonetheless, can indeed think about uploading the less edited versions in advance.
Robert Andrews
Yep, would be fine with a four-hour Patreon cut! ;-) I once read Darwin's Dangerous Idea, and I think Dennett comes across as being an even bigger champion of the idea of memes that even its creator, Dawkins. Would be interested to hear your thoughts on it.
JustTheWorstEver
Don't be shy about dropping those cut segments into this feed like breadcrumbs. The conversation between you two is why many of us are here, not the gurus themselves. Especially people like me who will never experience life within academia and are benefitting from the ways in which your backgrounds inform your takes on these ideas being bandied about. If nothing else, it's a window into a world we'll never be a part of, and it helps keep us sane to hear rational, fun people having discussions about something other than what's in our news feed.
