Decoding The Gurus patreon

Supplementary Materials 8: Lab Leak Discourse, Toxic YouTube Dynamics, and the Ontology of Peppa Pig

🕑 Added 2024-06-07 18:58:49 +0000 UTC

Comments

Jen

I am just a grumpy American woman but I have worked with a few folks with South African and British accents. Andrew Gold is absolutely using his accent to his advantage. It is sooooooooo creepy to me. He is all thirst and no substance.

Eddy

I highly recommend checking out TWiV episode 1121 for a nerdy and devastating critique of Alina Chan’s conspiracy theories.

emmajane

Urgh Andrew Gold! I’ve only ever heard his adverts on other podcasts, for Shopify. I turn the volume down, he always sounded sleezy, now I know why. Also Keanu > Johnny Depp

David Noble

"NYT meant to be the best" - I'm afraid mainstream US media is quite terrible.

Soapy Dishwater

I've noticed myself, as someone who spent time in queer spaces online circa 2011ish, that issues which are very real and are worth spreading awareness of became kind of differently used by a subsection of progressive people over the next decade. Trans people and gender affirming care became like a bludgeoning tool used by people who aren't trans and don't have any interest in their wellbeing. I feel like there are some vocal people on the left (both influencers and regular people on social media) who care more about their own moral superiority than the real people caught in the middle. And the issues with the right should be obvious.

Matt

'Wokism' as a pejorative is usually alluding to people who receive progressive academic discourse, concepts, and phrases, second- or third-hand from social media. Without fully grasping the nuances of the argument. This poor understanding of the literature leads to black-and-white thinking, and in some cases, an extreme oppositional attitude to the perceived aggressor. I think this is exacerbated by online echo chambers, which gives the impression of a majority with their worldview. This leads to the belief that a 'revolution' would be successful. But instead leads to a rw reactionary backlash. As a result of the success of the backlash, denigration of more moderate progressive voices is seen, as the right continues to push the agenda that progressives are irrational. That's just my two cents anyway. Woke in it's original meaning is being awake to system racism, and racial injustice. Both of which, while controversial in some spaces, are quite obviously evidence-based.

sirlysriracha

I also got first into Gold via cult things, too! I think it was before he had a YouTube presence, just audio only. I unsubscribed after he was way too credulous of some heavily skewed court-TV-body-language-expert types. What an embarrassing trajectory for him - but what delightful schadenfreude I had while listening to this ep!

Anneliese Levy

I did something pretty similar. I felt like it happened quite quickly. I was still being fed his stuff on Spotify as well and was annoyed by all the titles of his episodes!

Tim Tripp

Perhaps Q is the cult leader as it was Q’s drops that the cult coalesced around. Is there an example of something similar happening with wokism?

Chandra Collins

Keanu Reeves! 💙😉

Chandra Collins

Haha, the middle aged health report. Also, someone must write their thesis about Peppa Pig now! 💙😂🐽

Linda Sears

We Americans are suckers for British accents.

Tobias nilsson

Wow Andrew gold will go home so well in USA. So much bullshit with a posh dialect. Also what a creepy guy and so full of himself

john statham

Possibly. But he is awfully busy arguing with the Suit man about Laurence Fox’s skinny jeans and burning flags. It’s a one way argument, but still

Brainbiter

He was in the ‘MATT- rix’ wasn’t he…😶

Brainbiter

I agree with Chris- it was a big admission…this is the man who spent a whole podcast with Sam Harris refusing to concede basic parameters for human conversation. Conceding a dead human probably rose from dead against all laws of nature pins him down like he hadn’t before…

Brainbiter

Great comment left under Russell Brand TikTok today - ‘it’s like that time in peepshow where Jeremy joined a cult’ 😂…same level of seriousness. Also I know he’s not political ( see Lex, Rogan, Huberman et al ) but seems to have been staying with Donald Trump Jr.. who’d a thunk it 🤔

Jennifer Nelson

The latest episode of This Week in Virology takes on Chan's lab leak article point by point, "SARS-CoV2 still didn't come from a lab" (TWiV 1121): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sz2qFJmpoug

Aaron Holder

Love the mid life conversion to aerobic exercise, boys. I remember when I started jogging. A country boy on an island, I expected to be charmed by bucolic scenery and the smell of hay. Country roads in Australia smell of diesel smoke and rotten kangaroos. The view is okay, though.

Daniel Reed Miller

Yes PLEAASE cover/decode Balaji Srinivasan!!! He is really beyond the pale yet all these useful idiots are platforming him. I heard extended clips on a recent episode of Einah’s with the guy from the (quite excellent) Tech Won’t Save Us podcast, of Balaji giving just the most unhinged and purely techno-fascist vision of San Franscisco (and by extension, everywhere.) I’m sure you’ve heard some of it. It would be laughable if these guys weren’t gazillionaires who are literally investing in this vision as we speak. The floating libertarian paradise idea didn’t work out, nor the start a town in the middle of farmland idea, but they are literally starting their buy up San Franscisco block by block plan, and bought a new district attorney to crack heads on the homeless, etc. Can’t wait for their “greys pride” brownshirt parade, yikes.

Robert Andrews

Started typing "why is the queen the only" and Google immediately filled in the rest, "...human in peppa pig" Reddit suggests..."I think it is a subtle nod to Animal Farm. The revolution could only go so far." This is interesting, but something else came up... "The Queen, Santa and the princesses from peppa’s fairytale books are human. This suggests that humans are a rarer species but considered powerful and authoritative, often occupying high ranking positions by the virtue of their humanity."

Sam D.

I often have to force my attention to some of the more extended clips that DTG posts of their subjects. Like my brain hears the nonsense and just wants to turn offfffff....

Sam D.

Yes, well he started positioning himself as the "reasonable center" between the unreasonableness of right and left . But then the right started using the cult framework to explain everything on the left and and Gold seems to have grabbed that and run with it, building on his previous framework and reputation posting content about cults. It's dizzying.

Sam D.

Pictures of Japan are very interesting and welcome!

Emma

I think perhaps we're coming to a sort of cultural division here because I suspect maybe the US takes Christianity a bit more literally than other more secular countries. In Australia I know a lot of people who consider themselves Christians without believing the bible is particularly accurate or that Jesus was a supernatural being. They have just a very general agreement with some of the moral teachings of the bible and maybe a vague belief in God. Or some just like the link to their family cultural background. I'm sure Alex would consider those people to also not be proper Christians. But I think if more people understand the murky origin story of Christianity then it makes no sense that one group gets to define what Christianity is.

Emma

Yeah. JP made a sort of concession but then he tried to walk it back :-)

Jennifer Nelson

I had a similar experience with Gold. I started listening to him because I had gone down an anti-cult, anti-scientology rabbit hole and a podcast I was listening to mentioned him. I think it was around the same time you were talking about, because he all of a sudden took a huge swerve off the road and fell into the ravine of anti-woke stuff - so I stopped listening and unsubscribed right away

aneladgam_varelse

This feature in time of internet has proven to be unnecessary for cult dynamics to exist. Too online people manage to recreate most elements of BITE model without single leader - which is evident with QAnon (especially outside USA). Also ideology spawns smaller, local groups with charismatic leaders.

Tim Tripp

I think most cults have a charismatic leader. If wokism is a cult who is the charismatic leader?

Matt

This is the ultimate version of the 'Ontology of Peppa Pig' discourse. https://youtu.be/NAh9oLs67Cw

Christopher Kavanagh

In the sense that I’m thinking about him and his content recently yes…

aneladgam_varelse

Chris, has dr K changed your life already?

Jonathan Crymes

I like that Andrew Gold “exposed” his own content. Like, “this thing that I facilitated, filmed, and then edited didn’t present the REAL story. Tune in to find out the truth!”

Roland Weber

Thanks, that was another entertaining episode! I'm so glad that I don't listen to most of the people you cover. @Matt, if your knees hurt from jogging, please take good care. Analyse how you jog, maybe have a video analysis done by somebody with a professional eye for that. My knees used to hurt after long walks, until I realised that I landed on a straight leg with every step. When I keep my centre of mass lower, so that the knees remain bent on impact, it's the muscles rather than the joints that absorb the shock. 🦿 And for the records, I do not like Keanu Reeves. At best, I find him OK in some of his roles. But never mind, bring him on for the enjoyment of the other patreons! Make sure to ask him about the Mattrix. ⊹

Zelda Hershy

Might be helpful context that from my perspective using ultrasounds to disuade people from getting abortions is a time tested anti abortion tactic used exclusively by the evangelical right (at least in the USA).

Zelda Hershy

I don't see a disagreement between us particularly. I'm saying JP doesn't want to pin down answers to specific questions because specific answers might jeopardize his standing with a segment of his target audience - disenfranchised fumdamentalists christains need him to not deny the truth of Jesus as their savior, and enlightened centrists and anti woke sensemaker types need him not to be an all out Christian doing apologia. So he just pretends it's too complex to give an answer, because he needs all his audience to continue projecting their answer onto his pseudo intellectual chirping on religious topics. I'm pointing out the irony of him refusing to "pick a side" on the religious dogma (was Jesus resurrected etc) but his desire to take money from Preborn betrays his pretense of a dispassionate stance

aneladgam_varelse

Re: it doesn’t matter if JP believes I’m surprised to say this, but I disagree. Dr K operates kinda similar to JP, but he’s pushing Eastern Spirituality* in his self help message and is convincing people to adopt his religious paradigm in secular way, because it just works. Many dr K fans say they don’t care about it, as long as it works, it changed their lives etc. But actually it does matter if selfhelp gurus want to convert people to particular religion or just think it’s good for secular self help. I assume it would be easier to separate guru’s views from his offer, if guru provided clarity. In the comment section here @Kyle wrote down 3 possible interpretations of Christ’s death. If Jordan explicitly said that all and admitted to be non-believer, it would mean his really serious about all the value he founds in Christianity and usefulness of them on quest to get your shit together. Now we know JP is so into christianity, because he’s just a person of faith. *dr K, what do you mean by Eastern Spirituality?

Roland Weber

As I remember the episode, JP just conceded that somebody came out of the grave. Not who that was, or how long he'd been in there, or in what physical state.

Maytree

I’m not arguing that one book is more accurate than the other. Rather, most if not the vast majority Christians don’t make such distinctions, and the differences between the Synoptics, John, Q and other possibilities are pretty much not taught in Sunday school or considered deeply to draw doctrinal distinctions. Few average Christian’s in my experience would say you can be a Christian outside of believing Jesus was divine. (I’m personally skeptical of most of it as history as it strikes me as all pretty speculative at best and scholar consensus is shaky on much of this, even Q, even whether John was independent of the Synoptics, etc ). I’m not saying what should make for a Christian one way or another. The point Alex is making is that in his experience Christians (and it’s been mine) tend — and not all — to indeed have a litmus test for what qualifies (not surprising given John), and hence their frustration with JPs historical dancing around the question of a divine Jesus. But it seems that JP has finally “passed” that test based on what I heard him say — he tends to think Jesus went from dead to alive, and was/is thus divine.

Roland Weber

whoops, for a second I read "and the jaws" there 🦈

Zelda Hershy

I think Jordan Petersons sponsors give the game away. It all makes a little more sense when you factor in an advertisement for Preborn in the middle of Alex o Conor's episode- "we interprupt this super serious philosophical discussion about whether JP believes in the literal truth of Jesus as your lord and savior to bring a word from our sponser - a company that uses ultrasounds to combat the unborn baby holocaust... Now back to our super serious inquiry into whay JP REALLY believes..." It's not about what JP really believes or is willing to commit to or not commit to philosophically- he's a grifter, the name of the game is getting and keeping his right wing audience engaged through pseudo philosophical political and culture war pundritry. I think JP got way too much credit for once upon a time being a well respected Jungian psych prof with an antiestablishment hobby horse, but he's never had anything of much interest to contribute to "sense making" or good faith philosophical conversations

Linda Sears

I want to see what the bouldering looks like.

Ymirsdreams

We have the secret to the decoding power: You have to keep doing it, no matter how hard it gets. It took Matt and Chris a full 3 years to get this strong. 18 PULL UPS, BOULDERING, AND A 3km RUN EVERY SINGLE DAY!!!" For breakfast, only drink nootropic, and beat the mic with your fists for mental resistance!

Linda Sears

I was really getting into your Peppa Pig analysis. It warmed my humanities heart. As for the resurrection, perhaps Jesus went into a coma like JBP did? Thanks, as always, for keeping the world a little more sane!

Emma

I don't think it's out there to question the gospels. Except for to the fundamentalists who believe they are spiritually inspired. Other than that they're just a bunch of historic sources with sometimes overlapping and sometimes different messages which can be studied critically like any other ancient documents.

Christopher Kavanagh

I’ll post some in the chat.

John S Durst

Not complaining, but we're definitely in the historical weeds once one starts second guessing the Gospels! Personally, I don't trust this alleged Q-source, it's Mark all the way 😄

Emma

Good pick up. But this gets us more into the historical weeds. The gospel of John was written last of the gospels and differs in many significant ways from the synoptic gospels (the first three). The biggest difference probably being the way Jesus describes himself! In the synoptic gospels Jesus doesn't refer to himself as being divine and he's kind off secretive in general. Telling people he heals to tell no one. In John Jesus is comparatively grandiose. A lot of scholars see John as being the least accurate as it reflects the evolution of the early church's theology post Jesus's death, which can also be seen in other early Christian manuscripts. However I may have explained my original point badly. I'm with Gordon Paterson in that I don't think a literal belief in the supernatural elements of the Christian story, such as the literal resurrection of a dead person, are necessary to be a proper Christian. I think a lot of modern Christians would agree with him there. And it's perfectly possible to follow someone without believing them to be divine. But your probably right JP is possibly stretching his interpretation of Christianity too far even for a very liberal Christian. So I can see why religion leaders might object to him.

Desma

O god! This Andrew guy is so vomitously awful! I love your casts and usually I find it really entertaining… because a lot of the content like this you cover is kind of funny as well as seriously cringe, but this guy really made me feel a bit ill, its really amazing to hear someone with his head so far up his own arse who just can’t hear himself… eew the condescension… blech!!

aneladgam_varelse

but what do you mean by lcd camera?

Ymirsdreams

Perfect point, poignantly punctuating pressing political ploys.

Violet

You guys are such a lovely refreshing bittersweet tonic. I enjoy a dose everyday in order to build my skeptical muscles. Stay gold pony boys.

Idan Ca

Andrew Huberman entered the chat

Lillie

You guys are hilarious, the last two minutes of this episode are gold😂

Maytree

Fingerboard in the office will make you look more hard core…..

Maytree

I’m not sure whether this is a disagreement with your comment. But it wasn’t all virtue teachings with Jesus. It was also about himself. “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” Hence we have the idea of *exclusively* in the DNA of Christianity. And it’s still tantamount to much of Christianity that belief in Jesus as some sort or Messiah (as the reported Jesus thought of himself) is a requirement for salvation. Paul may have taken it a step further since he was aware of Jesus death and alleged resurrection and made that part of the theology. But there is some level where merely following Jesus ethical teachings is simply doctrinally not enough for a large portion of Christianity.

Christopher Kavanagh

I have a pull up bar in my office 😉

Will

18 pull ups, no AG1. Dang.

Nerfherder

Would love to see pictures of the countryside you ride through.

Adam Sher

Make it a new subscriber tier.

Adam Sher

If you want to self flagulate, Balaji did a 7 hour podcast on Lex.

Alex H

The Andrew Gold section was fascinating and darkly funny. Seems to have followed a similar trajectory as JBP, Liz Truss and Russell Brand.

Kyle

As an atheist I don't really care what JBP thought of the resurrection either. But it is significant Alex got him to that answer because it reveals a bias in his approach to religion, Christianity in particular, that I think even he has convinced himself doesn't exist, hiding it behind the mystery. There are only three options availble to him now as far as I can tell. 1) yes, Jesus rose from the dead and if we could be present we would all be witness to that event, 2) Jesus came out of the tomb, therefore must not have really died but was near death when taken from the Cross and subsequently succumbed to his injuries later, or 3) there was some illusion taking place to convince people that it occurred. Options 2 & 3 refute the divinity of Christ and he couldn't bring himself to do that. So, the answer is yes, he literally believes a Jesus rose from the dead.

Anonymous ethicist, not a serial killer at all, just asking questions.

Between Andrew Gold and Dr. K Chris has found internet freaks that absolutely make my skin crawl with how they interact with women.

brianshmrian

It occurred to me that I usually only comment when I have a question or criticism, but I just wanted to say that I've been really enjoying the show for over three years now. Can't wait for the Keanu interview!

Emma

Actually I hate to say it but I might be on JPs side on this one. Alex is correct that the central tenant of Paul's Christianity was that you have to believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus. BUT this is completely different from the teachings of Jesus himself. Jesus was all about actions (looking after the poor and such) and he specifically didn't really care what you believe. Such as when he said Matthew 7:22-23: Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ On the other hand the good Samaritan was considered one of the goodies in spite of having completely the wrong theology (according to the jews).

Sean Doody

Balaji is one of the most insufferable tech cultists I’ve ever come across. His appearance on Sam Harris’s podcast was more torturous than hell itself. The comfort he has opining on things he has no experience in is beyond irritating, to say nothing of his general personality.

Anonymous ethicist, not a serial killer at all, just asking questions.

The Andrew Gold stuff was slimey as all hell. Just doesn't believe the woman has agency. What a POS.

Christopher Kavanagh

No one wants to see that, trust me.

Christopher Kavanagh

💪

Christopher Kavanagh

He will find out on his own, don’t worry.

Christopher Kavanagh

It’s mostly flat!

Jeanne H-B

These gurus and their wannabes and acolytes are such a bunch of arrogant boys. They are all boring in the same way.

Sam D.

Glad you brought Andrew Gold under your lens. I got referred to his work by a more reasonable podcaster, at the time he was interviewing a lot of former of scientologists, and I watched some (pretty standard stuff). Just then, the info about the accusations about Russell Brand broke in the British media. Within a few hours, Gold released an episode claiming defense of Brand ("he seemed like a good guy to me, therefore the accusations can't be true" type of defense). And within a day after that he took it down and issued a retraction. Apparently he hadn't even really read what had been published? What a jerk, I thought, just looking for clicks! Never listened to him again.

john statham

‘It’s a great, big, awful hamster wheel.’ Classic #Mattrix. BF Skinner sits by the fire and eludes: ‘I told you that I’d get you.’

Exai

Pooh pooh! Personally perceiving Peppa Pig perchance personifying ploys pertaining preschool/pediatric perturbation. Pagans! Pederasts!! Postmodernists!!! Petition Peterson, please!

john statham

Fair enough. I shall seal my lips

Christopher Kavanagh

Our right of reply isn’t for people we just mention in segments, it’s if we do decoding episodes. I’ll be happy to talk on his channel if he so desires.

Devin Poore

15 km commute each way on the bike Chris?! That's impressive. I used to have a bike commute about that long that I did for a few years. That's a serious workout.

john statham

You’ve mentioned Andrew Gold. Five Grand says that I can prompt him into a right of reply within 40 minutes. That geezer would go to the opening of a drawer if it got him a click.

Roscoe 112

+1 broicity on the gureoflexometer for 3 km jog and 18 pullups. Keep on punchin!

Adam Sher

18 pull ups in a row AND bouldering? You should do the episodes shirtless.

Bad School Counselor

Fwiw, it is Paul, in 1 Corinthians 15:14-19 that has the reference Alex is quoting.

aneladgam_varelse

Omg setup for Jordan is wonderful, I admire his strategic genius

Michal Lichota

Regarding the JBP revelation about Jesus, I’d really like to hear what he has to say about Mohammad being the fulfillment of the prophet and the laws.