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Sacred Symbols+, Episode 361 | Dissecting the Insomniac Leak

🕑 Added 2024-01-06 17:00:06 +0000 UTC

Comments

KnivesDCCCVIII

I won’t buy and play the last of us 2, because the game got all the major story beats spoiled for me before I was able to afford the game. At this point. I’m only really playing those games for the story. They don’t do anything mechanically that really speaks to me In a way that seems like it will hook me in the long term for “fun”. The first game isn’t something I ever think to myself. “Oh I want to play that again.” So I don’t see the sequel as a worthy investment of my time unfortunately. Which is actually a little sad, because I did enjoy the first game. Also Chris makes a strong point. I’m a man in my mid 30s now.” Who’s prone to depression. So knowing the story can be so heavy at times. It doesn’t exactly make me jump to experience it. That said, I love some depressing ass content so I’m a fool lol.

Devon McCarty

Is the online branch of Al Qaeda called E-Qaeda? I'll see myself out.

Owen

Also shoutouts to Dustin for pushing back on the gamepass comparison.

Owen

TLOU remastered was also bundled with ps4 so those numbers are inflated

Kurt Lewin

This is up there with one of my favourite episodes, there was so much covered in here that wasn't reported on by the wider press which made it a super interesting listen. I love a deep dive into the industry goings on and all the numbers such as this. Superb work!

Lovat

Can add another tally to the list of people that avoided TLOU PT.2 because of COVID. Even avoided much of the leaks. But, being stuck in a one bedroom apartment for 2-3 months really killed any desire for a depressing story.

Jerry Huerta

Crack in time is awesome

Nathan Densley

Love this episode. I decided not to play TLOU 2 from the first preview where they were gutting that girl. I didn't want a sequel to start.

Ryan

I understand the idea but there is literally no way anybody didn’t play the last of us 2 because of Covid and it was depressing lmao

Zixten Larsson

I think Chris point about TLOU P2 dropping at a really depressing time in general is a great point, I personally held off from buying it until I felt the whole weight of the world felt a little more bearable

Nathan R

Last of Us two also came out during COVID when games were doing well.

Connor

Like he seemed kinda checked out?

James Pies

No other podcast would do a deep dive to this degree. Thank you Colin for sharing your PlayStation nerdom with us and doing the digging

Jarett Davis

I remember that year like it was yesterday. Best Buy had a promo, so I preordered 5 games that year. That November alone was insane. I sometimes roll my eyes when people don’t mention 2011 as one of the best years in video game history. Maybe too many sequels and not enough innovation, but that year was stacked!

SlickMick

Fackin well said here dude. And i loved part 2. You nailed it

SlickMick

Crack in time was by far the high point in the series for me. Not entirely sure why but the “game feel” (as chris says) was just spot on. Series hasnt hit that same mark for me since, despite my insane hype for Rift Apart. Who knows, maybe im nuts

MrFreundly

I’m happy Dustin keeps stepping in to level set some assumptions that can arise in these conversations. Colin has every right to draw to a conclusion however Dustin’s comments keep the conversation more open to interpretation and honestly helps keep topics interesting. Also, kudos to Colin for being receptive to other cast members thoughts.

NinjaDC

For best Ratchet game, it tends to fall into 2 camps. The Crack in time Camp, and the R&C2 and 3 camp. The 2&3 camp have internal conflict over which is better, but agree those are the best.

Robbie Agnew

Kinda makes me sad that when Chris asks Colin why Resistance 3 sold poorly and was overlooked in 2011 Colin says he doesn’t know why. Back in the Beyond days he knew why. It was the Year of Dreams for Sony, where they released an insane amount of exclusives in 2011. But that backfired because great games like resistance 3 got overlooked. Uncharted 3, Skyrim, Killzone, Infamous 2, Portal 2, MW3, Crysis 2, Dead Space 2, LA Noir and sooooo many other games just swallowed games like Resistance 3 up and spit them out. In short, the year was too stacked and Resistance was lost in the shuffle.

Nick Pacheco

Im gonna give you the two reasons TLOU2 isn’t nearly as popular. At probably a 3-1 sales rate the sequel was objectively a commercial failure compared to the first one. The two reasons are the leak, and the divisive ass story. Part one is universally loved, part 2 is not. It’s that simple. Make the player play as a character who killed an beloved character for 10 hours is insane, plus making her ruin another characters whole life is crazy, although probably relastic. Those are the reasons, TLOU2 just isn’t as good as TLOU1 in the one area these games live and die by, the narrative. Mix that with the leak of the huge death early on and you get a divisive game that people like myself do not recommend to people who loved the first game

Zachary Abell

Hate to be that guy, but there's a glaring omission on these inflated sales/franchises and psychical sales... bundles. Games like LOU Remaster, Uncharted 4, and Spiderman (PS4) were heavily bundled when the PS4 was also on meteoric rises (Uncharted 4 bundled when PS4 sold 30M+ that FY). I think LOU 2 sales are pretty inline with the strength of that franchise, albeit the leaks probably did hurt it.. but LOU Remaster is inflated from the bundles more than anything. LOU2 didn't have any bundle benefit, same as LOU (PS3), as the PS5 was less than six months away post launch. I believe the Spiderman (PS4) physical sales are also inflated from the bundles.. as that was when they shipped physical games with the bundles too. Had it have been digital, I think the numbers would've been swung in the digital favor completely. Overall though, excellent analysis boys and s/o to Colin for putting these notes together.

CombatSneeze

The reason the last of us 2 sales number are so much lower than the original and remastered is that the former were in console bundles. I remember TLOU PS3 bundle and I got the TLOU remastered PS4 bundle in 2014

sam croese

This is why I subscribe. Absolutely no one else has content of this quality.

Misko 1023

Damn Chris really went all out on this one…. Sheesh

Romeo

Ive played every single R&C game. Its my fav series. For me the most fun R&C is Deadlocked. A Crack In Time has an amazing story.

Dustin

Im gonna disagree on this, but also this discussion is highly subjective. As some one who grew up on these I considered the originals to be leaps and bounds greater than any release on ps3 and metacritic supports that with 90’s for the og trilogy and an 87 for a crack in time. But again it could just be that these were some of my first favorite games and when crack in time came out I was teenager who cared about mature games.

Zeke the Plumber

It really fucking sucks that Resistance is dead. I loved those games

Evenor Castillo

Yup, I haven't played it yet and I wish Chris hadn't spoiled that. :(

Henry Morgan

I know most listeners of this podcast would have finished SM2 already, but imo it’s a spoiler that you play as *redacted*. Wish Chris would have checked himself here even if it is predictable

Sean Y

yeah I appreciate the analysis, but it does come off as half-baked. The data is sketchy as well. As of dates, and time adjusted comparisons would be more fruitful instead of comparing the unit sales of a game in year 7 to a game in year 2.

Nolan Fitzpatrick

Really great show, good to hear the news finally from this leak. Love what you guys do at LSM. Keep it up!

My most hated race is the 400m dash

I agree, but TLOU remastered definitely includes bundles

My most hated race is the 400m dash

Yes

My most hated race is the 400m dash

Is Colin trying to trick me into defending TLOU2? Many of the TLOU Remastered “Sales” are from the PS4 bundle. That was THE bundle early on in the PS4’s life. If Colin had looked at the revenue in these leaked docs, it would be obvious. TLOU II outgrossed remastered despite selling 8 million fewer units. I still think the leaks hurt TLOUII, and I have my own issues with the game, but you have to look at revenue, not just units sold.

James McGivern

I agree that decision was likely costly, but I have an alternative view that I never see discussed. I've platinumed TLOU2 and finished grounded mode. The feel of the game mechanics is legitimately off-putting and it's by design. Most games make sure you feel gamified violence is justified, and impact is largely downplayed for the sake of fun. TLOU2's main mechanic is violence and it's legitimately disgusting. The screaming, gurgling, grief stricken murder is not fun to play, not fun to watch, and not fun to think about. If that's your fundamental game engagement, I don't think it should be surprising that people generally won't want to participate. Not all game violence is the same, and TLOU2 proves this in my opinion

TL

I'm not saying anything others don't know, and I am a TLOU2 fan, but it was their creative choice to kill off a character that ultimately killed PT2 sales here.

NeO JD

I love that the first Spider-Man Dustin can think of for a skin is “Crackhead Spider-Man”. 😅

NeO JD

Learned this the hard way by not buying Ultimate Alliance when it was up on PS4.

NeO JD

Depends on if you’re a Marvel fan. I’m buying all of those. 😅

Have you considered considering considerations considerately considerate

I think he said it’s the multiplayer one not multiplayer only one.

Connor

I commented this under the youtube video

Sean Y

One thing these analyses often understate (SS unfortunately no exception) is that they don't emphasize the timescale. If a game like TLOU1 is 20M+ copies sold, it did not reach that amount in Year 1,2,3 or even 4.

Yiorgos

Really sucks that Insomniac is now a Marvel only game studio. Waste of talent

Noah Friscopp

Just a little correction: God of War Ascension isn’t just a multiplayer game it has a full story it just was in that period of tacked-on multiplayer. Not a bad game at all just kind of more of the same and hard to replicate the feeling of 3.

Joseph

I cheered when Colin finally mentioned FGO, lol. It's insane how much money that game made (still makes). I hesitate to say this because nothing is ever a sure thing, but if they made a Genshin or HSR clone with those Fate characters, it would absolutely do gangbusters. Type Moon owns the IP though, so it would be a big outlay to secure either TM itself, or the licence then make such a big game. That's how you succeed though if you want a Genshin-like success, channel insane fandom and make a good game.

Joseph

I think Spiderman Online could be biiiig, but I don't think the game engine is ready for it yet. The world needs to be more of a sandbox, more interactable. It can't just be a backdrop for you to swing in. And you need villains. If the tools are there, I can see people RPing their own superhero movies, making their own cutscenes with an advanced photo editor, creating their own heroes (whether spider based, wolverine based, or even other xmen). You just need to beef up villainous characters, let players base them on the villains from the games (or heroes, that can act villanous). And they need to be able to interact with the world - stealing cars, robbing banks, blowing up buildings etc etc. It could absolutely work, but I'd probably wait for PS6.

MetroidIsBetterIn2D

TLOU1 sold more because it is genuinely better than TLOU2. Even without the hate campaign, it wouldn't have surpassed its superior predecessor. TLOU1 had a better story, much better pacing, the narrative didn't get in the way of the progression systems as much (e.g. switching characters and losing backpacks), and also importantly it had a multiplayer suite that kept people engaged with the game. Hopefully part 3 considers what part 1 did better than part 2. Part 2 is still good for the combat though.

ByWatterson

Colin misread those budgets. Those were revenue, not budgets. https://imgur.com/gallery/5vAx0Mg

Pretendo

Regarding the last of us remastered sales, didn’t it come with a holiday bundle that came with a digital copy of the last of us and a disc version of GTA 5. Wouldn’t that inflate numbers to a degree? Are those counted?

CUMSoftware

In regards to the last of us 2 sales could it have been that the story doesn’t live up to the first in peoples eyes or that the sequence of events and story message just don’t deliver the way they need to? And doesn’t talking about changing the order of events for season 2 of the show demonstrate 2s events were poorly planned and executed?

Jonathan Gould

This is some of your greatest work, guys. This is exactly why I’m happy to pay to be here and have been happy for years. Worth every penny I’ve ever spent.

Jamal

Just want to back up that A Crack In Time is widely considered the best, with 2 and 3 also having sizable amounts of people considering those games the best. Size Matters is also generally considered one of the worst, if not the worst, especially since it originally came out on PSP and then was later ported to PS2 (in 2008, mind you).