LastStandMedia
patreon
Sacred Symbols+, Episode 452 | Moriarty x Hoeg: Epic vs. Apple, Nintendo vs. Everyone
🕑 Added 2025-05-10 16:00:14 +0000 UTCWill I (Colin) proceed forward with this new Moriarty x Hoeg branding? Hell if I know, but it feels right in the present. On that note, please welcome regular LSM contributor, lawyer, and friend Rick Hoeg back to Sacred+ for yet another foray into the legal and business happenings of our beloved industry. Today, Rick and I focus on three ongoing disputes, with the first by far being the most important. Epic and Apple have been involved in a years-long legal tussle that has recently reignited with a seeming short-term Epic win in tow. What happens between these two companies when it comes to bespoke storefronts, access to third party capital, and the onerous cost of conducting digital business will resonate through the entire industry, very much affecting what it means to sell products on PSN, Xbox Live, and so on. So let's get into the weeds, shall we? Our final two topics then focus on Nintendo, recently alight on the back of its exciting reveal of Switch 2. But they've found themselves in a pair of legal tussles requiring further examination, one having to do with accessory maker Genki, and another to do with an obscure streamer accused of rampantly and blatantly pirating sometimes-unreleased software. Will Nintendo ever stop going hard in the legal paint? Probably not.
Timestamps:
0:00:00 - Intro
0:03:20 - Epic vs. Apple
0:54:42 - Nintendo vs. Genki
1:15:53 - Nintendo vs. Piracy
Comments
MattH
Ij OO is io
MattH
aXz z czbzZzzzxngxgzap be ij a
DeadMail
It’s always a pleasure to hear the tones of Mr. Hoeg! Exudes knowledge and clarity.
Glen Yelenovic
Always a pleasure to hear Hoeg!
Adam Martinez
Hoeg the goat
TheHOOfan1
I love listening to Hoeg on these issues. He's not only knowledgeable, but mostly impartial. Just before he replied to Colin with "get away with what?" I thought those exact same words. Hoeg had already described how Genki could be completely within their rights to do what they did. If that is the case, then there is nothing to get away with. They might have already done it, but I would like Hoeg to talk to Colin about the whole modding and fan fiction situation. Colin seems to think that most mods and fan fiction are a waste of time, because the people working on them don't own the rights, but there are plenty of cases where those efforts have lead to working with the actual rights holders, or spinning the work off into a legitimate new IP.
NeO JD
Bad analogy. They’re not stealing anything, they’re providing the game.
Jacob Lesperance
If you don't want to pay 30% for selling your game. Just make a platform for it as well.... Boom! Problem solved.
Mike Held
Apple makes garbage products. Of course Colin, the guy that knows nothing about technology, thinks they're good.
Casey Cieslikowski
Never understood Epics stance. I can’t just go to Target and demand shelf space and then tell them they get nothing from selling my product.
James
I think Nintendo is suing Genki's parent company, Human Things. This is not Genki Co., Ltd the Japanese video game developer
Jimmer
John Oliver lol
Drew
Really good pod! Thank you!
william planas
The government going after AT&T is what allowed the Internet to actually exist and thrive . John Oliver has a great video about it
Casting Obesaga on Chris so he becomes wider than he is tall, chode body status
more hoeg plis
ZombiesNJ
As someone who was born in 1984, I can’t believe I just heard the word Galoob 😆
Guybrush Threepwood
Imagine a guy goes into a Ferrari dealership and says, "i want to test drive that one." Dealer says, "ok, sign this thing that says 'I won't steal this car." Guy goes ."OK". Then the guy proceeds to drive that Ferrari off the lot and never return it. Further, he then goes online and tells everyone, that this Ferrari is too expensive, and that Ferrari does not have the right to charge this price. You think that guy is in the right? Cuz that is Tim Sweeney's behavior with the Apple store.
WhatDarrenPlays
I felt some added context was important regarding store cuts for video games. Epic Games Store takes 0% revenue until you make the first $1,000,000. Then it takes a flat 12% cut from additional revenue. Tim Sweeny put Steam on blast for their 30% cut, and during the rise of the Epic Games Store in 2018, Valve introduced a tiered model, presumably because Epic's was very competitive: -30% for the first $10 million. -25% for the next $40 million. -20% for all revenue beyond $50 million. So to Epic's credit, they have already benefitted developers to some degree by making the playing field more "fair". Although, is it fair that the more you earn the more you keep? It somewhat punishes indies, but I understand the model. It's also interesting as Hoeg mentioned, that Epic does offer a much better cut, but developers much prefer steam due to its larger consumer base and players prefer it due to its plethora of features and consumer friendly practices. Cloud Saves for free? Could you imagine? So in many ways, Valve earn their cut, and you could argue Apple do too. Finally, it's worth noting that Epic are hated amongst gamers primarily due to the Epic Games Store and how they aggressively paid for exclusive games. Games announced for Steam were removed and put under Epic for a period of time, and this really angered Steam users. Not only were they "forced" to use Epic for these games, but the storefront was barebones in comparison and lacked many features (cloud saves, wishlist, streams, achievements, market, chat with friends and more). - it also comes bloated with Unreal Engine components, and developers need it to use Unreal Engine. It's a bit of a mess. So it was often seen as millions going towards poaching games rather than improving the customer experience, like Steam does.
Nick Z
Interesting thing about the Genki case, I thought the story at CES was that they made the 3D prints based off of various leaks regarding the dimensions, which were posted many places prior. I wasn’t under the impression they had firsthand knowledge directly.
