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Godslayer Lysette: Chapter 262

🕑 Added 2024-11-06 12:59:15 +0000 UTC

Comments

Jessica

You do raise a very good point! If Asterion never had the mortal perspective from his point of view humans die anyway in what must appear to him as a blink of an eye, so he really can't understand why his recreation of the world would be a problem. All he has to go on is the prayers of his followers to raise them above their enemies which he does. I guess we are again at the point where we fundamentally disagree, where I would indeed fault those that keep the tyrant in his position more than the tyrant himself because I don't think that I would choose differently in his place. But I do recognize that there is a fundamental disconnect between abstractly assigning blame as a philosophical exercise or as a direct empathic response to the cries of those suffering. And while this is only a story I do recognize that I am closing off my own empathic response in real life to not have to feel powerless to help.

Bielna

I see where you're coming from. But let me present another perspective. The deities of Aimarion are also conditioned by Omnia's system to be in their position. In the case of primordial ones, they didn't even get a choice or the experience of mortals. Does that excuse their belief in a divine right to rule, or the evils they have committed ? Nope, no way. Though I even feel sorry for those of them who haven't even been taught about respect of mortals and equity, they're still responsible for their actions. I'm excusing the people who have been conditioned to bow to deities because they're not doing harm to others. Those who make others bow do. I don't mind if it's inconsistent, in a tyranny (aka., Omnia's system), you would blame the tyrants, not those who allow them to exist, even when both were born in that system (see Kiarra's example). It is the people's duty to take their rights back against tyrants, but personally, I would not condemn them for not fulfilling that duty. Lysette has done some effort to share power, but I wouldn't say she has done her share, despite Mirae's insistence for her to delegate and trust others. She hasn't tried to make someone else take decisions, the only effort she's made was to have other people approve hers. For example, Serrena thinks Rolf and Beatrice deserve to know of their latent divinity, but her reaction isn't to tell them, it's to suggest to Lysette that they should know. Both of them are in the wrong, they should know that if Serrena already knows what's right she should just do it, but Lysette is the one who has the power of decision and choose to keep it. On the other hand, to be clear, I don't think Lysette is the worst person ever for taking that power, and it's not something unforgivable. She's in the wrong, and Beatrice is right to be angered by the situation... but Lysette knows it, tries to use it only for good, and I'm convinced that at some point she will find a way to return that power to the people who legitimately deserve it. (Which means it is something I keep separate from her Demonic actions. If by "what Lysette did wrong" you mean slaying people out of convenience and because their lives aren't worth anything, then no, I don't even remotely agree, no amount of righteous action forgives gratuitous evil. But if by "what she did wrong" you mean accidentally becoming the leader and deity of Ciricu, then yes, she has done more than enough right to compensate the wrong, hasn't misused it to hurt people as tyrants would. As Mirae said, the part of her that cares about people and tries to improve things for them is a part I like. And though the situation is not ideal because an enlightened despot is still a despot, it's still on the side of good and while I'm hoping things will improve, it's not something for which I'd say Lysette owes Ciricu or the world, as long as she doesn't misuse that power and gives it up eventually.)

Jessica

I think you are a little bit inconsistent by excusing the actions of Aimarion's people by their conditioning to bow before the deities but not Lysette's actions although she too has been specifically chosen by Zarielle and been pushed and groomed to amass power. Lysette has shown a remarkable ability to overcome her designated role that nobody else in this entire story has so far. And at some point I would argue one has to accept that Lysette has done her share even considering what she did wrong, and if the people around her don't carry theirs it is no longer her fault. Of course, we can wish that everybody is already born as an awakened Bodhisattva, but we can also wish that cats would shit gold. We can only judge people by how much they moved the world towards loving kindness and understanding, not by where they started. And judging by that Lysette has done a remarkable job.

Bielna

I do agree that Lysette did what was right in the situation she was put in, but it doesn't change the fact that an all-powerful deity, easily dominating mortals, draining the power of others and taking it for herself is wrong. That everyone in there accepts that situation (Lysette herself is probably the second-most disgusted by it) is a good cause for anger. So, I also think Beatrice is wrong to begrudge Lysette for her actions, but her anger at what she is, the overall situation and the apathy of everyone else to it is right. It's kinda why I said Beatrice could do more "against Lysette" by helping Ciricu (and honestly, Lysette herself), helping them see the wrongness of the situation. She doesn't accept it, which makes her not so different from Lysette rejecting the position of deities on Aimarion. I hope that's what she'd do and I'm being optimistic - I might misjudge her, and she could go back to working for Thosse. But I don't agree with the part about Ciricu. The people of Aimarion are the ones who put the deities in the position they are in now, in a way. Does that mean people like Thosse and Asterion are justified ? Hell naw. And Lysette "offered to be a guardian deity"... to people who would have been killed without her help. It wasn't exactly a free choice, even after Mirae reasoned with Lysette that her help shouldn't be conditional, those are people who are conditioned to bow down in front of deities. Remember what Solanna said a couple of chapters ago. Saffron also follows the wishes of the majority in Domaria, even those of people who would benefit in a change of status quo. In the same way, Lysette took the position of absolute leader and deity of Ciricu, which was offered to her and given willingly, because it was convenient. But that position shouldn't even exist !

Jessica

If Lysette does turn if/when Beatrice betrays her, it would be a sign that she didn't actually make the choice in this chapter and thus would fully deserve it. Also I think it does make a difference that Lysette didn't force herself into the position of guardian deity of Ciricu but merely offered it when it seemed like a good thing, so arguably it was the Terean soldiers who put her in this position and Beatrice is in the wrong to begrudge it now.

Ria Corvidiva

There are artifacts that can restrain a Cultivator and render them unable to use their abilities (Bionco's priest was wearing one a few chapters ago). But they are expensive, and it's not the case that Ft. James both had large quantities on hand, nor the resources to transport people to Domaria. To note, there weren't a lot of extremely powerful Cultivators on the Elithrian side in that battle; it was mostly their weaponry that gave them an advantage. That, and Alan's aura.

Bielna

Ooooh. Well I love Beatrice even more now ! More potential demideities... I wonder if any of them (I think there are eight now, if Amalia's graft made her one) will awaken within this book ? So far, Serrena is the only one who awakened by herself (not counting Solanna and Saffron), but she does prove that it's possible. If any does, my bet would be on Beatrice, Rayleigh or Amalia. As for her outburst, on one hand Beatrice is wrong, considering they are Cultivators and draining them was the only way to keep them prisoners, that was absolutely the "gentle" decision. On the other I understand her anger, that someone powerful enough to neutralize or kill 43 (I think ?) elite trained soldiers and Cultivators can steal their Essence for her own benefit seems unfair. Something Lysette probably understands, considering her own hatred of deities using mortals as food for their own power. Nuances of gray. She also appears to make a good point that her people don't have a reason to trust Lysette, whether she means it or not when she offered to let people leave. But, shouldn't Potani and his squad have left and be a proof that Lysette does let people return to Terea, as long as they have been depowered ? If that's the case, that accusation is unfair. (Also we learn that there are facilities to hold Cultivators ? Unless I'm misremembering things, that puts in question what happened in Ft. James, given that Kristil mentioned the army executing their Cultivator prisoners... Saffron, got anything to say for your defense ? I suppose that the answer is that those facilities can't feasibly be built on a large scale and holding prisoners is logistically impossible, otherwise her behavior is quite hypocritical since she condemned Karchek for murdering prisoners, and honestly I think Saffron is too wise and direct for hypocrisy.) As for the last decision, I think Lysette is making the right choice. Sadly, Saffron and Bionco are right in the sense that Lysette gets to make that choice, is given the right to decide whether others can be free to make their own decisions or remain under her thumb. An unfortunate situation, as Serrena pointed out, they should have the right to know no matter what, but everyone in Ciricu still defers to her. I do hope Beatrice won't turn against Lysette once she and Rolf learn of this, though. Honestly, even if she seeks revenge, she can do more against Lysette while working to the benefit of Ciricu and the people living there than by fighting for Terea and Thosse against Ciricu. That way's smarter and more ethical. I mean, I kinda want to know if Lysette would still refuse to be like the other deities if someone she spared turned against her again, or if she'd just throw the towel and decide to be like them rather than get burned twice. But at the same time, I'd rather Beatrice do the right thing than follow a wrong path, and leave that question unanswered.

Ria Corvidiva

Mirae has their own perspective, for sure. Definitely a different one from Lysette or the Raeshs.

Jessica

I, of course, love Mirae being the absolute best person ever, but Lysette deliberately socializing and at the end choosing to take the risk of empowering her enemies shows how much she has grown and is absolutely amazing. (Of course, I credit Mirae's influence. 😁)


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